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[00:15] [Wheri] Okay. That was a short investigation, but one I can honestly recommend. I think the only other one is back in the first level.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] uh... huh
[00:17] [Wheri] What? There weren't that many of them, and a lot are quite frustrating.
[00:18] [Darkhawk] You're so vague I don't know which one you mean, obviously
[00:18] [Wheri] The one that starts from a laptop in al-Merayah.
[00:18] [Darkhawk] ah, right
[00:18] [Wheri] It doesn't even count as an investigation, in fact.
[01:00] [Wheri] Interesting. Are the monsters at the hotel related to the person in it? I haven't found any clues to that.
[01:03] [Darkhawk] You can learn a lot from the lore entries you can hunt/pick up, there'd be lore for both those monsters as a species, and also lore on that persons origin, though maybe you haven't reached that point yet.
[01:03] [Darkhawk] But no, they're not. If you mean the person on the roof.
[01:06] [Wheri] I'm not touching the lore until I get 100% of an entry (so probably never). And I figured I'd get more info on the person from later missions. That's just an odd place to hang out.
[01:06] [Darkhawk] hehe yes
[01:06] [Darkhawk] And yeah, I'm not reading the lore before I get it complete on entries either.
[01:07] [Darkhawk] But they've chosen to back-load lots of text-exposition to that, which makes the game somewhat hrm, strange for those not reading it. Bit light on the explanations for stuff.
[01:08] [Darkhawk] too light in places, like when the mission structure means you run back to someone and deliver something, but he doesn't talk to you because no mission giver apart from scrptied main story stuff ever talks to you when you complete a mission.
[01:10] [Wheri] That, too. In fact, I don't think a lot of missions actually had people *ask* me to do anything, or expect an answer.
[01:10] [Wheri] Does make the protagonist feel a little bit more proactive than usual, though.
[01:10] [Darkhawk] no, it's a bit disconnected, generally. Just them ranting, and then you do stuff.
[01:11] [Darkhawk] Yeah, they're also doing a bit subtle emotions on the PC when others talk that you can read some things into.
[01:12] [Wheri] I've seen the bloke smile once! For a split-second!
[01:12] [Darkhawk] hehe, stoic fellow
[01:13] [Wheri] It's my third attempt at the game, and this time it fits the character! At least, as much as it can fit, I suppose.
[01:14] [Darkhawk] The other fellow who plays the game still has just finished the first area and is lvl 17. He's a bit more... thorough. Or has a life ;)
[01:15] [Darkhawk] I hit lvl 50 a week ago...
[01:15] [Darkhawk] But to be fair, I've played everything before, and it's first now with new missions that things are taking time.
[01:18] [Wheri] I tried to breeze through the parts I did before, too. And I'm genuinely curious how the gameplay changes at max level. At this point, I'm only just discovering there are alternate types of equipment! And even then, it's just belts.
[01:19] [Darkhawk] hehe right, equipment doesn't matter too much at the start, though it's more efficient to plan upgrades ahead of course. But the system still doesn't punish you as you can always use what you have upgraded to upgrade something better later.
[01:20] [Darkhawk] When you reach a certain level, we could do a raid together. Well, us and 10 other randoms. That's a bit different, though many will have gear that makes it way easier than it was. Still, you'll die instantly if you don't do the right things, and that's embarassing ;)
[01:21] [Wheri] And I like this system much more than other MMOGs' TMJ. Still, because of the glyphs, I'm probably going to need several sets for different situations.
[01:27] [Darkhawk] yes, it would take QUITE a lot of grind to have two roles in shape for the hardest content.
[01:27] [der_Tommi] What's this game again?
[01:27] [Darkhawk] Secret World
[01:27] [der_Tommi] Worth caring about?
[01:28] [Darkhawk] For you? Heh.. Well, they had quite some active RP'ers in the old version
[01:28] [der_Tommi] OK, I guess I should play the old version then.
[01:28] [Darkhawk] As a game to hold your interest? Don't think so. But as GM inspiration, maybe. It's refreshingly different in setting and tone.
[01:28] [der_Tommi] There are probably less grindy GM inspirations.
[01:29] [der_Tommi] (I'm already gettin pretty tired of the grind in DA:I and I only play it once every 1-2 weeks..
[01:29] [Darkhawk] Well, the old version is still online, but not so surprising not many online.
[01:29] [Darkhawk] Absolutely, I don't think MMO's are for you as games in themselves.
[01:30] [der_Tommi] Anything particularly interesting on game-mechanics / storyline / community side?
[01:30] [Darkhawk] But some tea party RP 10 man MUD maybe ;)
[01:30] [Wheri] Investigation missions, for me.
[01:30] [der_Tommi] Ever Jane does seem to be in open beta now...
[01:31] [der_Tommi] Then again I never got through even one of those books..
[01:31] [Darkhawk] hrm, yes I'd say the missions/quests are different. Very adventure inspired some of them, others very puzzle based. Better story and lore than most other games, more 'mature' setting. Dunno about community
[01:31] [Darkhawk] not so many playing anymore I think.
[01:31] [der_Tommi] How do you grind puzzles?
[01:32] [Darkhawk] well, you get rewards for completing them, and all missions are repeatable each day
[01:32] [Wheri] Not your usual "go there, use thing, kill monsters", but more like puzzle/ARG sort of things. You have to look things up outside of the game, investigate clues, stuff like that.
[01:32] [der_Tommi] Is it the same "everyone's playing the same story and pretend they aren't" system?
[01:32] [Darkhawk] yeah, they've made blogs on the real internet you can research and follow clues from
[01:32] [der_Tommi] Are they somehow randomly generated to be replayable?
[01:32] [Darkhawk] They had an active live rpish event chain running as well with GM's
[01:32] [Darkhawk] nope
[01:32] [Wheri] Yes. However, side missions tend to be written in such a way that it makes sense you'll have to repeat it after a while.
[01:33] [der_Tommi] Nope or yes?
[01:33] [Darkhawk] Nope to randomly generated
[01:33] [Darkhawk] It's all about the story.
[01:33] [Wheri] Investigations aren't, unfortunately. Once you've solved it, you can go through the motions again, but there isn't much point.
[01:34] [der_Tommi] So they just have created a billion trillion puzzles for you to grind?
[01:34] [Darkhawk] Nah, they're longer and more involved than your standard fetch quests
[01:34] [Wheri] No. They're fairly rare. Most of the game is still action and sabotage missions.
[01:34] [Darkhawk] longer chains
[01:34] [der_Tommi] OK, so those are combat grinds?
[01:34] [Wheri] Sabotage is less combat, more stealth-like.
[01:34] [der_Tommi] How do you grind stealth?
[01:35] [Darkhawk] also, they try to ingame explain endless respawning and player immortality. Which works.. to a point. You're not THE saviour either, but one of many
[01:35] [Wheri] You infiltrate the same facility again tomorrow.
[01:35] [der_Tommi] Oh, and it makes sense that many saviours are doing the same stuff?
[01:35] [Darkhawk] 'somewhat'. Don't look for too much consistency in an MMO ;)
[01:36] [Darkhawk] or game...
[01:36] [der_Tommi] I see.
[01:36] [Darkhawk] or book... or movie...
[01:36] [Wheri] And there aren't reallly a lot, to be fair. I hardly ever see other players.
[01:36] [der_Tommi] Do those puzzles benefit in any way from it being an MMO? Apart from being able to ask people in-game for the spoilery walkthrough?
[01:37] [Darkhawk] easier to google ;)
[01:37] [Darkhawk] But no, there aren't coop puzzles
[01:37] [Wheri] Nope. I said from the very beginning, I don't understand why this has to be an MMOG.
[01:37] [Darkhawk] It's not termed MMO either anymore
[01:37] [Wheri] But it is.
[01:38] [Darkhawk] But it does have great dungeons and raids for groups. Apart from that.. yeah.. Tea party RP ;)
[01:38] [Darkhawk] Nah, on the main site, it's a: SHARED-WORLD ACTION RPG
[01:38] [Wheri] Tea party RP focussed around secret societies, where no-one bothers keeping their allegiance secret, I'm sure.
[01:39] [Darkhawk] Doesn't sound enticing, SHARED-WORLD ACTION RPG, but it's better than that makes it sound ;)
[01:39] [der_Tommi] Does it have an economy and group combat?
[01:39] [Wheri] I guess the "MMO" pool has been poisoned by... bloody hell, I can't even recall decent quest-and-instance ones recently.
[01:40] [Darkhawk] yes and yes
[01:40] [der_Tommi] Well, I guess it's as much an MMO as almost any then.
[01:40] [Darkhawk] Sure, it's the same game as when they called it an MMO
[01:40] [Wheri] Economy, probably. You can only get so much money from the game each day, so I'd say it's better than most.
[01:40] [der_Tommi] You mean the pool has been poisoned by some decent quest-and-instance MMO?
[01:40] [Wheri] No, failed ones.
[01:41] [Wheri] I... can't really name a lot of those, either. The latest I remember is Elder Scrolls.
[01:41] [Darkhawk] I actually really liked the new stuff in Star Wars. Very story focused... Very single player focused
[01:41] [Darkhawk] SW:ToR
[01:42] [der_Tommi] I know. I'm reminded that I haven't played those storylines, which are probably better than DA:I...
[01:42] [der_Tommi] But it would cost me thousends of Euros to play them all through with my free time allocation...
[01:42] [Darkhawk] way better... But Tarra seems to love DA:I. As for me, only that last DA:I DLC is really good.
[01:43] [Wheri] The last decent one I remember is GW2, for the record. But that also leans heavily towards single-player and small group open world. First expansion is map-wide co-op, second is straight-up singleplayer.
[01:43] [Darkhawk] well, you needed something to throw your money at...
[01:43] [der_Tommi] Tarra likes collecting shiny things.
[01:44] [der_Tommi] And exploration in general. There's a lot of exploration in DA:I.
[01:44] [Darkhawk] yep. Well, I was entertained playing it
[01:44] [Darkhawk] Liked the newest Mass Effect better 'I think'.
[01:44] [Darkhawk] At least it wasn't as bad as some said
[01:44] [der_Tommi] Exploring the areas, the history of the world, the character backgrounds...
[01:45] [der_Tommi] Andromeda?
[01:45] [Darkhawk] yup
[01:45] [der_Tommi] Okay..
[01:45] [Darkhawk] Was decent fun when you had no expectations
[01:45] [der_Tommi] I haven't tried it. Seems pointless if they canceled them.
[01:45] [der_Tommi] I like having expectations..
[01:45] [Darkhawk] and less of an annoyance story/plot wise
[01:45] [Darkhawk] ... Than ME2&3
[01:46] [Darkhawk] Cancelled, or more diplomatically, on hiatus
[01:46] [der_Tommi] Is The Witcher 3 tighter than DA:I?
[01:46] [Darkhawk] oh yes.
[01:47] [Darkhawk] Still very big, too big in some places. But yes.
[01:47] [der_Tommi] OK, but is it filled with filler or meaningful stuff, like stories you actually can affect in a meaningful way etc?
[01:47] [Darkhawk] I'm not sure you'll find fun in any of those games though. Maybe you should do stuff that actually feels intense?
[01:48] [der_Tommi] I find choices intense...
[01:48] [Darkhawk] Meaningful, I liked TW3, better than TW2.
[01:48] [der_Tommi] But I guess I could try getting into the shooters...
[01:48] [Darkhawk] ew
[01:48] [der_Tommi] Well, I liked ME2-3 already... Though most shooters don't let you pause...
[01:49] [Darkhawk] Secret World has choices. At least one, with semi-semi-semi consequence.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] So yeah, not a lot ;)
[01:49] [der_Tommi] But TW3 does?
[01:49] [Darkhawk] yeah, way more.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] but never enough of course
[01:49] [der_Tommi] Are the first two games mandatory reading?
[01:50] [Darkhawk] not enough meaningful branching in all that many games. TW3 is in the upper end.
[01:50] [Darkhawk] no.
[01:50] [der_Tommi] I'd be happy with basic introduction -> action -> choice quests at this point.
[01:50] [Darkhawk] But maybe there's a recap on the net, best to be a bit up to date.
[01:51] [der_Tommi] Is Gerard still an annoying whiner with a magical sexual allure that's never explained?
[01:51] [Darkhawk] TW3 is sublimely better than DA:I on the meaningful choice, story, plot, villain, etc. fronts
[01:51] [Wheri] I like the first one in general, but that hasn't come up a lot in what little I played in 2. And the stuff that carries over gets obsoleted almost as soon as you leave the tutorial.
[01:51] [Darkhawk] But Geralt is not a party, parties are nice, companions and keep building is nice
[01:51] [Darkhawk] of course he is!
[01:51] [Darkhawk] dunno about whiner, I think that's your bias
[01:52] [Wheri] It is in the books! He's sterile, and he tingles!
[01:52] [der_Tommi] Oh, I hate parties, being alone was great with TW. Or more precisely, when I had companions when they actually mattered to the story.
[01:52] [Darkhawk] but the sexual attraction yeah. And that's of course just male author main-char identification
[01:52] [der_Tommi] Or even more precisely, I hate the standard "pick your party" mechanic.
[01:53] [Wheri] Makes sense to me, to be honest. It's fantasy middle ages. Not much to do for fun besides screwing each other.
[01:53] [Darkhawk] true, for story purposes TW's way works better than the artificla 'hanging around the hero and risking life and limb constantly' approach.
[01:53] [Darkhawk] Well, there's the male-can-get-everything-he-wants sexism fantasy in TW.
[01:53] [der_Tommi] Or the "well, we can't take more than three people on this crucial mission because of no-reason" approach.
[01:54] [der_Tommi] I also hate managing their stupid skill threes and inventories... those idiots.
[01:54] [Darkhawk] hehe yes 'your party is too big, you need to risk your life instead of bringing along 1 more because that makes sense'. Or 'oh my, I can't possibly join you now, there is already one walking with you! No space!!!!!'
[01:55] [der_Tommi] ME2-3 had pretty much the perfect amount of that and even there I never bothered to change their weapons.
[01:56] [der_Tommi] In fact, I hate managing inventories, period. I think Gerard had literally two swords the whole game in TW1, unless I'm mistaken?
[01:56] [Darkhawk] yes, that was pretty basic. He could have different potions but you didn't really need to bother with it
[01:56] [Wheri] Not exactly, but close enough. There were something like 2 or 3 upgrades for each, but they were fairly straightforward.
[01:57] [Darkhawk] it's expanded in TW3, but inventory management still isn't a thing thing
[01:57] [der_Tommi] I think TW1 had pretty nice game mechanics for my tastes. It was the characters and some aspects of the world that I didn't like.
[01:57] [Darkhawk] More weapons though
[01:57] [Darkhawk] yeah, I found TW1 pretty slick and fine gamemechanic wise. And I also happened to like the rest.
[01:58] [der_Tommi] And who the hell invented inventory caps? Carrying 75 different weapons and other heavy items isn't any more realistic than carrying 1000. Let me be the judge of when my inventory is cluttered...
[01:59] [Darkhawk] I don't even remember the last game that tried going for realism with how much and how cumbersome items you could carry...
[01:59] [der_Tommi] I guess I liked the darkness of the world of TW, but I didn't like the characters' whiny, drunkardly attitude towards it.
[01:59] [Darkhawk] Would be refreshing with a new one, especially if you could buy pack mules or whatever.
[02:00] [der_Tommi] The only non-whiny one turned out to be a fascist..
[02:00] [Darkhawk] win/win!
[02:00] [Darkhawk] If you mean that human male.. Uh.. Vernon?
[02:00] [Darkhawk] Hate him ;)
[02:01] [der_Tommi] The knight / city guard captain / something, yes. He was tolerable until he turned cardboard fascist.
[02:01] [Wheri] I don't recall that much whining in Witcher. As for the drunkardness, I guess you have to be Slav enough for that.
[02:02] [Darkhawk] nah, I don't recall whining either, I think Tommi has a different definition of the term...
[02:02] [Darkhawk] ok, maybe the dwarf complained sme
[02:03] [der_Tommi] Well, not all of them whined per se, I guess, but almost all shared this quietly despairing outlook that got really tiresome after a while.
[02:04] [Darkhawk] that's also pretty slav, yeah
[02:04] [Wheri] Yep.
[02:04] [der_Tommi] Those are supposed to be Finnish traits too, you know...
[02:04] [Darkhawk] hehe
[02:04] [der_Tommi] But I guess the Slavs don't have Sisu...
[02:05] [Darkhawk] who, what...
[02:06] [der_Tommi] Even the Finnish classic book "Under the North Star" isn't that bleak and it's about townspeople turning on itself due to a civil war, about people sent to concentration camps, etc...
[02:07] [der_Tommi] Sisu. That's this word the Finns are so super proud of. Perseverance and stuff.
[02:07] [Darkhawk] Sure, it gets tired in TW that everything and everyone is fucked, and not much hope there.
[02:08] [der_Tommi] Does that continue through the sequels?
[02:08] [Darkhawk] There's that in Secret World as well. I can see why that is off putting to some. The opposite would be more off putting to me, but some balance while still on the lower end is good for me.
[02:09] [Darkhawk] oh yes, and the most in TW3
[02:09] [Darkhawk] happy happy and flowers ;)
[02:09] [Darkhawk] Well, their last DLC for TW3 was amazing and different from that. Not so bleak.
[02:09] [Darkhawk] Sort of like miedival, knighlty love France
[02:10] [der_Tommi] I think Game of Thrones (nobody calls that "Song of Ice and Fire" anymore, right?) has a pretty good balance.
[02:10] [Darkhawk] yeah, I can find my keys
[02:10] [der_Tommi] ?
[02:10] [Darkhawk] I'd say that's firmly on the bleak side, with just a little hope. But still quite bleak
[02:10] [Darkhawk] And yeah, nobody calls it the book name.
[02:11] [Darkhawk] Keybaord. I can hit the right keys on my keyboard.. Not
[02:11] [Wheri] Everything I hear of that series sounds so bleak and depresing, I'm not interested at all.
[02:11] [der_Tommi] Everything is pretty horrible in GoT, but the character's don't wallow in their desperation most of their time.
[02:12] [Wheri] And then they die.
[02:12] [der_Tommi] Now they happen to actively take charge in their destinies in ways that make things worse but it's still much more fun to read. :)
[02:12] [Darkhawk] yeah, I don't see TW as more bleak, it's about the same really.
[02:12] [Darkhawk] More rape in GoT ;)
[02:12] [Darkhawk] more decapitation in TW...
[02:13] [der_Tommi] The characters aren't mostly despeiring emos is what I'm saying.
[02:14] [Darkhawk] yeah, yeah I think we inferred that ;)
[02:14] [Darkhawk] You could always watch Baywatch, not so much despair and bleakness there. Except the existential stuff.
[02:15] [Wheri] New or old?
[02:15] [Darkhawk] Or Knight Rider. Come to think of it, The Hoff always stars in happy stuff
[02:15] [Darkhawk] Both I'd.. guess
[02:15] [der_Tommi] Um... Did I say somewhere I don't like dark stuff?
[02:16] [Darkhawk] nah, it's pretty clear it's the whining. Not the bleakness either
[02:18] [Darkhawk] anyway, I'm off. Have to force myself to write for an examination project tomorrow, oh joy...
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[02:19] [der_Tommi] I'll need to go to bed too. Good night!
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[10:00] [Cyrilion] Morning
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[19:13] [Darkhawk] heya
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[21:19] [Darkhawk] mhmr
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