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[00:17] [Wheri] I guess my overall opinion on the game hasn't changed, but at least the combat is less of a slog. The progression overhaul isn't as terrible as the mention of classes and levels made it seem at first.
[00:22] [Darkhawk] And how much have you played?
[00:32] [Wheri] Level 13, and past the bit in the maintenance tunnels in the main storyline.
[00:33] [Wheri] So not very far at all. Definitely no in-depth character customisation yet, but for what it's worth, this doesn't feel as overcomplicated as the original.
[00:35] [Darkhawk] no, the original had a higher learning curve early on, and you could fuck things up by choosing the 'wrong' skills for your strategy/build. I liked the freedom tho'. This is more 'standard'.
[00:35] [Darkhawk] But fair enough change
[00:37] [Wheri] I don't mind a steep learning curve, but I think the original didn't have enough payoff for all the attributes you could manipulate, and didn't communicate what was happening clearly enough.
[00:40] [Wheri] Maybe that's just an early game thing, of course. I remember (vaguely, as always) being overwhelmed by TMJ, not because choosing the best piece of equipment was difficult, but because I'd end up outgrowing it before I'd feel an appreciable effect.
[00:40] [Darkhawk] Also, you could end up pretty gimped if you just experimented and did what you liked
[00:40] [Darkhawk] Wouldn't be a disaster, then you'd just need to earn enough skillpoints to invest in something better, but that was demotivating for many.
[00:41] [Wheri] How's that? Spreading your skillpoints too thin, like for instance trying every weapon available?
[00:46] [Wheri] Similar issue with abilities, really. There's so many of them, but often the difference between what you have and what you're unlocking is negligible, at least you unlock enough to really start drafting optimised decks.
[00:46] [Wheri] at least until, that is.
[00:48] [Darkhawk] nah, with all skills available from the outset, and with no sorting of them into trees like now, you could mix and match skills that didn't really fit together optimally.
[00:48] [Darkhawk] You can still do that now, but it's a bit harder
[00:50] [Wheri] But they were sorted into trees, and I seem to remember each tree being fairly self-sufficient. You still had to mix and match for two weapons, but it wasn't very difficult at all.
[00:50] [Darkhawk] hrm, might be something they changed before Legends, but not at first when I played
[00:51] [Wheri] I played at release. Skills were still arranged into trees (well, lines, rather), and I'm pretty sure you had to unlock them in order.
[00:55] [Darkhawk] hrm.. well, fair enough. I'll concede that point then. Sounds strange. Especially when you ask Tarra who complained about this issue.
[00:57] [Wheri] You were more forced to use two weapons, of course. At least have a consumer ability for both, and a builder of course, and an elite. That's 4/7 already.
[00:59] [Wheri] There we go, I just pulled up a screenshot of the ability wheel. If anything, you started with 2 branches on each weapon (with 6 more unlocking once you complete those). Legends has you start with 3.
[01:00] [Darkhawk] I totally concede ;) My memory's not the best anyway
[01:00] [Wheri] I don't know what it is about this game!
[01:06] [Wheri] So yeah, it felt underwhelming. There were a tonne of abilities to choose from, but you had to choose at least 4 from specific categories, cutting down on that choice very heavily. The remaining 3 were somewhat more open-ended, but you'd probably want specific categories there, as well. Aggro manipulation, emergency and one other I'm not sure about.
[01:15] [Darkhawk] different mechanics were you needed something to purge and cleanse (remove debuffs) were only needed way later than what you played.
[01:16] [Wheri] And I'm guessing only in instances, where you'd have to coordinate your decks to some extent.
[01:19] [Darkhawk] yes. The dungeons and raids on Nightmare difficulty was the greatest I've played in any game. Really well-designed mechanics that took a lot of coordination and playerskill. Of course, percentually almost no one will see that content.
[01:20] [Wheri] I only did the first one, but on the bright side, they seem to only take 3 people. We can manage that, can't we?
[01:23] [Darkhawk] yes. But the mechanics are way different in storymode than on Nightmare diffulty. Anyway yes, we can easily 3-man them in storymode. Actually in story-mode you don't even need specific roles. So it's a much different experience, difficulty wise
[01:24] [Wheri] Fair enough. I guess we'll see if/when I get there. What I remember in that one instance I did is it kind of turned into a bullet hell for the boss. Or did I do more than one?
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[01:37] [Darkhawk] Dunno if you tried more than one, I guess you'd know better ;)
[01:37] [Darkhawk] And what do you mean, bullet-hell?
[02:01] [Darkhawk] anyway, off to sleep
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[08:50] [Darkhawk] mooooorning
[09:31] [Wheri] Bullet hell is having to dodge a tonne of projectiles or telegraphed attacks in MMOGs' case. Also an entire subgenre of scrolling shooters.
[09:31] [Darkhawk] well, the bosses in the first dungeon don't have guns...
[09:32] [Darkhawk] but yeah
[09:32] [Darkhawk] That's not just the first dungeon. Placement and movement is a common theme in nearly all boss fights
[09:40] [Wheri] It definitely fits the more direct controls better, if we decide to try them.
[09:41] [Darkhawk] Feels the same to me, movement wise, but yeah I do enjoy not just standing still and blasting mindlessly but having to react to more things.
[09:41] [Darkhawk] At least in that game.
[09:50] [Wheri] Mh. I have some very frustrating technical issues that will likely cost like $3 to fix, except there aren't any computer stores nearby that I know of. Also, I'll have to turn the thing off, and it's having difficulty turning back on...
[09:51] [Darkhawk] that sounds... Shaky.
[09:51] [Darkhawk] And are you living in Siberia or something? ;)
[09:55] [Wheri] Or something. I mean walking distance. I'm used to having one nearby.
[09:58] [Darkhawk] luxury
[09:58] [Wheri] Yep.
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[10:01] [Tarragon] Hello
[10:02] [Tarragon] Did you just not go to bed at all, Darkhawk? Because I have to say, if so, it's been a while.
[10:08] [Darkhawk] heh, hey Tarra
[10:09] [Darkhawk] I don't sleep much these days, what with labourers working on a new kitchen and showing up at 7 o-clock. Some hours every night
[11:34] [Darkhawk] right, and now off for some hours
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[14:18] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ joined #seed.
[14:20] [Cyrilion] Afternoon
[14:21] [Tarragon] Hello
[16:49] [Tarragon] Seems like a few years back they finally officially reported on/confirmed things like muscle hypotonia and other motor skill weirdness re. autism.
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[19:15] [Darkhawk] ok, now there's peace for today. I hope.
[19:46] [Wheri] I think I finally got SWL to download fully. The "in background" thing really didn't work. Also, second area, and yes. This one was boring, but I'm pretty sure I made it through. Just following the storyline and doing sabotage/investigation missions this time.
[19:59] [Darkhawk] Yes, same here with the download, seemed shoddy like that, with lots of hiccups. But now, with a new patch, it downloaded all the missing data at once for me
[19:59] [Darkhawk] Personally I don't think the second area is boring, but I'd be in the minority I think
[20:00] [Darkhawk] the 5th area was somewhat boring for me, while 6-8 are really nice.
[20:01] [Wheri] Boring is probably not the right word here. Overwhelmingly drab or dull probably fit better.
[20:42] [Darkhawk] sounds like boring ;)
[20:45] [Wheri] Yes, but more precise!
[20:47] [Darkhawk] Are you able to keep on-level by doing select stuff only? Otherwise you can always redo missions, but I guess that's boring too
[20:47] [Darkhawk] you'll also run into some gear-trouble with the new system if you don't do missions all over, unfortunately.
[20:49] [Wheri] Pretty much. There was a bit of a bottleneck around 10-12, but after that and between prerequisite missions and the daily tasks, I'm keeping up fairly well.
[20:50] [Wheri] The interesting sabotage and investigations are generally gated behind an action mission or two, so I couldn't exclusively do those even if I wanted to.
[20:54] [Darkhawk] I see they've moved the super excellent 'The Search for Tyler Freeborn' story-line that made up issue 5 of the old TSW down from endgame content to lvl 28, so you'll hit that one in the third area. If you don't like that one, I don't know how what'll ever please you ;)
[20:54] [Darkhawk] -how
[20:54] [Darkhawk] if you like story and atmosphere...
[20:56] [Darkhawk] but good call on their side to do that really
[20:56] [Wheri] Character levels are totally arbitrary, anyway.
[20:58] [Darkhawk] they've done the 'monsters don't attack if you're 10 levels above them thing' with them though, which is nice ease-of-life wise at least
[20:58] [Darkhawk] Oh btw, my ingame name is 'Aqeela'
[21:02] [Wheri] Added.
[21:03] [Wheri] Putting time-based achievements on suspenseful/scary missions is a very strange and misguided idea.
[21:03] [Darkhawk] just ignore them the first time, you can always redo them if you want to achievement hunt. But best not to focus on that the first time.
[21:04] [Darkhawk] but yeah
[21:04] [Wheri] Yeah. I kind of remember these missions, anyway, so I may as well try.
[21:54] [Tarragon] Night everyone.
[21:54] Tarragon ( left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me
[23:53] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ left irc: Quit: Leaving


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