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[01:49] [Darkhawk] buuuut, with 8 mods installed, some googling on the mechanics, and some experience, it's more bearable.
[01:50] [Darkhawk] and now I'm off
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[09:54] [Darkhawk] morning
[11:13] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ joined #seed.
[11:14] [Cyrilion] Morning
[11:27] [Darkhawk] Morning Cyrilion
[11:28] [Darkhawk] Ready to test out Secret World Legends together with a few of 'us' today? It's totally a different game than the one you hated for some reason ;)
[11:36] [Wheri] How large is the thing? I may as well give it a go, but not particularly interested in solo play.
[11:43] [Darkhawk] oh, it'll 90% be soloplay as people give it a try and drop out. I'd look at it with the 'maybe we'll gather enough who will continue hanging around for more than 2 days, but probably not' mindset. Also, if we got some people together for play, SWL's structure would mean everything but some dungeons, raids, area bosses and possibly PvP would be solo.
[11:46] [Wheri] Riiiight. To be fair, that was the case before the relaunch as well, so I'm not even sure what I expected.
[11:49] [Wheri] And there, I've finally realised what never sat right with me about it. The tone, floating between Lovecraftian horror, X-Files, and superheroes. I could never make a character that felt right.
[11:53] [Darkhawk] Indeed, they haven't changed the game that much, so it's pretty much as it used to be. With some new NPC mechanic akin to SWToRs where you can send your companions off on missions on their own to get you stuff. And they brand it as a 'shared-world action RPG", not mentioning MMO and downplaying the group aspect, while promoting solo and action.
[11:54] [Darkhawk] I managed to make a character that I felt fit well enough, by focusing on the allegiation to her Secret Society, especially The Templars. Order, duty, structure.
[11:57] [Wheri] I'm really, really torn. I like action, and I really think the game shouldn't have been an MMO to begin with, but from what you've told so far, it feels like it's an overall dumbing-down of the game. And if the only thing they've done to the combat is alter the controls, then it's just not going to fit together very well...
[11:59] [Darkhawk] Yeah, to be fair, I'll have to admit that the combat system feels better after using it for some time. But due to their building atop something already existing, some things do feel unneccessary clunky. Like pressing 'alt' to get into mousemode so you can use your mouse on the screen/menus.
[12:01] [Wheri] That's good. Have they done anything about the inventory at all? It probably sounds really shallow, but the UI in general was very dry, uninformative, and just not pleasant to use at all. Even EVE had it better.
[12:02] [Darkhawk] Yes and no. They've limited how much space you can have without buying more. The f2p thing. Otherwise, no.
[12:03] [Darkhawk] They've made Agartha into a social hub, with all vendors and dance floor and restaurant and what have you placed inside a tree. And put together the different areas of the game so you don't have to run too far along branches to get anywhere. I don't like any of that, immersiveness-wise, but to be fair, before that, players just gathered in Agartha anyway, doing their silly ooc things ;)
[12:04] [Wheri] Mh. Well, I'm installing, anyway. 15 gigs shouldn't take long.
[12:05] [Darkhawk] hehe
[12:07] [Darkhawk] We're 2 people playing it today, a third trying it out in some days time, and around 4-5 others considering whether to try it. But as said, I wouldn't think 'group-content' for now.
[12:08] [Darkhawk] And we lost one yesterday after she played 10 minutes. The new, first tutorial doesn't do the game a favor in actually showing what it's about.
[12:08] [Wheri] Meanwhile I've brought my last ONI colony into a standstill by messing up the power system. And now I don't think I'm going to start a new one soon. I followed the same basic pattern every time, so now it feels like I'm doing the same thing all over again. Shame.
[12:09] [Darkhawk] Yeah, you have to learn from each time you play and do things differently, or it'll end up the same way.
[12:09] [Wheri] Did they not reuse the Tokyo subway level?
[12:09] [Darkhawk] Yes, but they inserted another tutorial before that.
[12:10] [Wheri] Why?
[12:10] [Darkhawk] ... yeah
[12:10] [Darkhawk] Tohave more fighting up front maybe. To introduce the 3 kinds of quest types maybe.
[12:10] [Darkhawk] To make the game worse, maybe ;)
[12:13] [Wheri] I don't see not just why, but how I would start differently. The challenges are roughly the same, you get roughly the same amount of space before hitting chlorine (whose toxicity is not implemented yet, apparently?) and slime, so sticking with the pattern that works seems to be the sane option.
[12:15] [Darkhawk] yeah, chlorine is not a threat yet. And you'd start differenlt if your colony somehow hits a stand-still, in order not to hit that stand-still? ;)
[12:15] [Darkhawk] But yes, if the pattern works, of course. I had to adjust the pattern 3 times before I got as far as now. Felt rewarding learning from past mistakes and implementing new knowledge that got me farther.
[12:15] [Darkhawk] ... further
[12:16] [Wheri] No, I'd start the same and develop the same up until the point that caused the standstill. Then I would implement the adjustments.
[12:16] [Darkhawk] right, my previous errors needed to be fixed right from the start. In regards to food production, temperature and power.
[12:17] [Darkhawk] Or they'd pile up and it'd be too late to fix later.
[12:18] [Wheri] Well, they're relatively minor in my case. Leave some space for heavy wiring, set up the generators differently, maybe don't plant so much mealwood together without entertainment for the farmer...
[12:19] [Darkhawk] I imagine the story is what'll make people continue. But you didn't get all that far, did you? Into building a transit system out of plastic for instance?
[12:22] [Wheri] No, not very far at all. Just far enough to set up water recycling and power. Made a nice hygiene block and started with semi-advanced farming and power, but then I overloaded the wiring.
[12:24] [Darkhawk] yeah, you need those power regulator things, or that'll happen all the time. And I'm guessing you didn't set up water recycling the 'right' way then, so early on, and that would have devastating consequences later on - it did for me ;)
[12:26] [Wheri] Oh, food poisoning germs in the recycled water? The water was over 75 degrees and went down to feed the algae and powerplant, so it shouldn't have been a problem.
[12:27] [Darkhawk] no, the problem is that the water is that hot. It'll raise the mean temperature in your base. Even more so your food production rooms, where you use it for irrigation. And most food will not grow above 30 degrees. So you get a huge problem at that point. But it takes many cycles to heat up to that point.
[12:28] [Darkhawk] And I spoil you because you don't seem to mind. But I'd really mind such a spoiler, instead of running into it on my own.
[12:29] [Wheri] No, that did end up happening, kind of. At that point, I would've had to try out an electrical and a botanical solution.
[12:30] [Darkhawk] yes, but it's uphill fixing at that point, instead of being aware of it from the start. At least for me.
[12:31] [Wheri] And yeah, strategy spoilers are worse for me than story ones, but I think I know what problems to expect and vaguely their solutions.
[12:31] [Cyrilion] I'll pass on SWL. Wasn't really the mechanics that put me off.
[12:31] [Darkhawk] What did put you off? And yes, I know I asked before :(
[12:31] [Darkhawk] I don't even remember your name anymore!
[12:31] [Darkhawk] Or wait.. Allan?
[12:32] [Wheri] That seems to be the theme of the game.
[12:32] [Cyrilion] Wow. With your memory, you actually manage that one. I'm impressed ;)
[12:32] [Darkhawk] Yeah, it's annoying how random facts get stuck, and not like, the ones you need ;)
[12:34] [Cyrilion] As for what exactly put me off, I'm not sure myself. The pace of the game, perhpas. Being "stuck" in the same depressing zone for too long.
[12:34] [Darkhawk] yeah, the second zone, right? WIth Innsmouth Academy. As I said to Wheri the other day, that seems to be the place where most quit.
[12:35] [Cyrilion] That's the one
[12:35] [Darkhawk] But I guess most zones are 'depressing', feel-wise. The three starting zones the most probably, and then Tokyo later on.
[12:35] [Cyrilion] Either way, I don't really feel like going through that content again, even if it's changed a bit.
[12:36] [Darkhawk] well, the content hasn't changed at that point I think, so yeah.
[12:36] [Darkhawk] Fair enough.
[12:36] [Darkhawk] Dunno if we ever find a MMO we all love again ;)
[12:36] [Wheri] Hey, I'm still cool with EVE. It's just too much of a commitment for me.
[12:37] [Darkhawk] We don't all love it though, or want to try it out.
[12:38] [Darkhawk] And I actually 'like' a lot of MMO's, as long as I can quit/pause after 2 months or so. Probably TSW, EVE and LotRO are my existing favourites.
[12:38] [Darkhawk] SW:ToR I see as even more of a single-player game than TSW
[12:39] [Cyrilion] Speaking of old content, by the way.. LOTRO is updating landscapes of Breeland and some of Ered Luin
[12:42] [Wheri] I don't think there's even one I have the potential to like on the horizon. Smaller-scale games seem to be overtaking the genre. Sub-MMOGs, if I were to come up with a name.
[12:43] [Darkhawk] Oh, in a way that looks good? Seems a bit... like a lot of work beginning to update such a colossal game like that, gfx.wise.
[12:44] [Darkhawk] But I guess it shows that they want it to continue
[12:44] [Darkhawk] yes, not so many interesting MMO's on the horizon. Or any.
[12:45] [Cyrilion] It's just reusing assets made during the past decade, to update the old zones.
[12:47] [Wheri] And a number I did like, but ruined by the developers, most upsettingly.
[13:01] [Darkhawk] hrm yeah ok, dunno, not the biggest difference judging from those screenshots :)
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[15:55] [Tarragon] Hello
[15:55] [Tarragon] Second day with no hot water. Company has sent someone to fix it twice now, or so they say.
[15:57] [Darkhawk] heya Tarra
[15:57] [Darkhawk] You sound sceptical. But it is unheard of for companies to lie
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[19:01] [Tarragon] We don't have a bath either, so we can't boil a few huge pots of water and take a bath instead of a shower.
[19:03] [Darkhawk] *insert quote about the Victorian age and hygieine here*
[19:42] [Tarragon] At least we still have a baby bath to fill for Ian when we have to. And I'm not sure if you can get as clean, or at least as scent-free as usual, with cold water. Pores not opening as much and all that.
[19:47] [Darkhawk] Can't you go to your fitness center and get a bath?
[19:49] [Tarragon] I could, but I can go cold again tomorrow. I'd feel worse during the week when I have to go places, but hopefully it'll really be fixed monday.
[19:50] [Tarragon] I don't like bathing in textile places. It's so much hassle having all your stuff in the stall with you and trying to shower and not get anything wet, then dress in cramped space. They don't have naturist gyms afaik :S
[19:52] [Tarragon] Also if some guy (or even a few women) sees you by accident if you decide not to dress in the stall, they make it awkward or worse. The masses are weird about nudity.
[20:40] [Tarragon] Wow, I'm going to be able to use so many more combat options now that I can bind more stuff to my mouse in TW3
[20:50] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I have this mouse with 16 extra buttons for mmoing myself, it's pretty nice
[20:51] [Tarragon] I have 3 extra buttons, but ok :D
[20:51] [Tarragon] Max to what I can use.
[20:52] [Darkhawk] Mine's bigger!
[20:52] [Darkhawk] But yeah, also makes a difference
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[21:51] [Tarragon] Off, night everyone.
[21:51] Tarragon ( left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me


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