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[00:02] [Darkhawk] Hey Wheri, how long has it been since you gave EVE a spin? I see you've been in the default corp for quite a few years by now.
[00:02] [Darkhawk] After Gradient in 2010 and the Seeds before that. Time flies...
[00:04] [Wheri] Yeah, Gradient was my last involvement, so it looks like 2010, maybe even '09.
[00:05] [Darkhawk] have you been back in after that to check out stuff? I forget.
[00:06] [Wheri] I don't think so. I may have logged in to get an anniversary thing, but I didn't get to actually play the thing.
[00:07] [Darkhawk] yeah. I was roped into it just now with the 15th anniversary, because you got a special battleship. Turns out it's not useful for anything at all, it's strength is that even basic capsuleers can fly it. Well past that ;)
[00:08] [Darkhawk] But now I'm here, might as well take a look at new stuff. And reread old mails as well and got to feeling old because it was such a long time ago. Alas.
[00:09] [Wheri] It is my understanding that that is the case with most anniversary things.
[00:10] [Wheri] Let me know if you find anything interesting, although I don't think I can maintain such a high-commitment game at the moment.
[00:14] [Darkhawk] well, me neither, just looking and maybe if I like it, doing a few solo pve things, maybe hacking. Maybe the new tutorial with a new char, basic stuff.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] My old dream of having one tight Seed RP/metaRP group playing EVE and building a small corp will never happen anyway ;)
[00:16] [Wheri] Ah right, I hear they've added some sort of minigame to hacking! That may make it sliiiiightly less boring!
[00:16] [Darkhawk] or it happened as much as it could, back in 2010. Did some fun things there, metaICly for all with Factional Warfare, basebuilding and planetary resource stuff.
[00:16] [Darkhawk] there are also more unique epic storylines for the pve player now I hear.
[00:17] [Darkhawk] but all in all it hasn't changed THAT much in 8 years, all things considered. They spent a lot of time on crappy side-projects.
[00:17] [Wheri] To be fair, at this point I'm more interested in their boarding action (separate game) announcement. And even then it's not a lot, because I've gravitated towards the more hardcore shooty games, anyway.
[00:17] [Darkhawk] .. and they seem to be continuing growing anything else than their core experience, yes ;)
[00:18] [Wheri] Is there even a core experience? Besides the economy, I suppose.
[00:19] [Darkhawk] core experience = EVE Online. They tried the 'walking around in stations' expansion, they bought White Wolf for a new Vampire game, they brought out that horrible marine game set in the same universe, and as the latest EVE Valkyrie for VR. And now this new game.
[00:20] [Darkhawk] All financed by EVE online actually working out for them, but everything else being a money sink and lacklustre.
[00:20] [Darkhawk] Well, Valkyrie might earn a little.
[00:20] [Wheri] Yeah, although I think in-station gameplay would be a great help for roleplaying.
[00:21] [Darkhawk] Yes, but a rather limited focus financially. And they didn't even manage to pull that off and decided to drop it because there wasn't much interest aswell as it having taken way too long and gotten too bloated as I recall.
[00:22] [Darkhawk] But yeah, would have been nice for RP'ers. Probably they'd never have gotten to their ships then ;)
[00:22] [Wheri] It's a shame, too. The Vampire game might've been a pipe dream, but one worth trying; the marine thing baffles me, because it's a console-exclusive FPS addon to a strictly PC game. Just weird.
[00:22] [Darkhawk] they clearly wanted to branch out with their EVE Online money. But good thing the White Wolf stuff is in other hands now.
[00:26] [Wheri] EVE is a very niche game that won't last forever. Branching out is a good idea, even if it's only into adjacent niches.
[00:27] [Darkhawk] No game lasts forever. But other than that I'd disagree, it's a niché game with very engaged players, and in 15 years, the player base has only been growing. Will never be 'huge' but it doesn't need to.
[00:28] [Wheri] Really? I've been hearing that it's been slowly declining since its peak around 2008-9.
[00:28] [Darkhawk] It has a decent size, is unique and the hardcore libertarians are engaged ;)
[00:28] [Darkhawk] hrm..
[00:28] [Darkhawk] ok, maybe I just live in the past, let me check.
[00:29] [Darkhawk] One really cool thing about EVE is that they don't' hide the number of users online
[00:29] [Darkhawk] so:
[00:30] [Darkhawk] and yeah, it peaked in 2013, but it's not bad now either.
[00:31] [Wheri] Yeah, it's been a very slow bleedout.
[00:32] [Darkhawk] not sure it's a bleedout from the chart, might be, might not be. However, it's been many years since they added something really new, system wise.
[00:33] [Wheri] I'm still on the lookout for a mini-EVE, but so far the only candidate that deserves mentioning is Albion, and that doesn't have a free trial as far as I know.
[00:33] [Darkhawk] And it's notoriously difficult to get into and from what I hear, people are not new player friendly either. So yeah, niche, but pretty stable looks like.
[00:33] [Darkhawk] In many years there'll be Dual Universe if you've heard about it
[00:34] [Darkhawk] But nothing's going to be like EVE probably. And there are so few trying anything remotely like it unfortunately. Would be refreshing with more takes on strategic/tactical space-MMOing.
[00:34] [Darkhawk] Everyone else goes for more action-y combat.
[00:35] [Wheri] The most frustrating part for me is that there were games that tried, got close, and then chickened out and reverted to more generic rulesets.
[00:35] [Darkhawk] and less complexity. Because that'd generate more money. And when you think like that in the first place, you also realize that space doesn't generate as much money as fantasy...
[00:36] [Wheri] I agree, but at the same time I want a less complex (and consequently, less commitment-heavy) game, myself.
[00:36] [Darkhawk] so very small market, unfortunately. And the makers of EVE would probably not even try that approach if they made the game today. Too slow - spreadsheets in space ;)
[00:36] [Darkhawk] well, then maybe Dual Universe will be better.
[00:36] [Darkhawk] Or even that.. uh.. superhyped semi-flop...
[00:37] [Darkhawk] Now I forget the name
[00:37] [Wheri] Maybe, if/when it's out.
[00:37] [Wheri] Nomanski?
[00:37] [Darkhawk] The autogenerated unlimited planets one
[00:37] [Wheri] Nomanski.
[00:37] [Darkhawk] Not Elite Dangerous, that one is good, but with way too little content.
[00:38] [Darkhawk] And heh, that bloated trainwreck of broken promises and dlelays.. Uh.. The Wing Commander follow up
[00:38] [Darkhawk] StarCitizen
[00:38] [Wheri] Yeah, that wasn't remotely competitive. Basically a $20 indie game picked up and overhyped by whatever major publisher that was.
[00:38] [Darkhawk] No, not Nomanski, don't know that one.
[00:38] [Wheri] No Man's Sky.
[00:39] [Darkhawk] gah yeah, I just realized ;)
[00:39] [Darkhawk] and yep. But they continued to add content and now it should be - better
[00:39] [Wheri] Funny. Just yesterday I had a friend tell me I should totally get into Star Citizen either next major update, or the one after that.
[00:39] [Wheri] They're adding gameplay!
[00:40] [Darkhawk] incredible! Now you can.. I dunno. Semi drive around an area on a planet!
[00:40] [Darkhawk] Maybe.
[00:41] [Darkhawk] Think George R. R. Martin will bring out his next book before Star Citizen ever happens
[00:41] [Wheri] No, there's apparently production and trade. I dunno, I'm sceptical, in the sense that let me know when it's worth playing.
[00:42] [Darkhawk] maybe after it actually releases
[00:44] [Wheri] We'll see. I like space. It's weird that we hardly see space games now, at least ones that aren't SPESS MUHREENS YAH.
[00:44] [Wheri] Although, Kerbals... but Kerbals don't count.
[00:44] [Darkhawk] not so weird, in that space isn't on people's mind much anymore.
[00:45] [Darkhawk] maybe there'll be a revival with SpaceX. But elves are more appealing ;)
[00:46] [Darkhawk] luckily there are quite a few decent indie games with less scope and money but with lots of fun and space.
[00:47] [Wheri] I'm not sure how SpaceX translates into starships and blasters. There has been an increase in specifically Mars-themed games, but that may be that movie from a couple of years ago.
[00:48] [Darkhawk] Yes exactly, I imagine if the broad public, and before them, game devs as with the Mars thing (which I do think is because of present thoughts about SpaceX 'getting there') can get inspired by actual space exploration without blasters, lots of space-y games will also trend.
[00:48] [Darkhawk] in 10-30 years.
[00:49] [Wheri] Or if we get a good Trek successor.
[00:51] [Darkhawk] has to be damn good to pull the gaming industry by itself. Even the Trek games had a hard time being about exploration and not about action.
[00:51] [Darkhawk] Though I remember a nice one from 1993 I liked...
[01:09] [Wheri] There were a couple of point-and-clicks, but I mostly mean a general interest, not attempts at translation.
[01:39] [Darkhawk] yeah. Maybe Star Wars will also do that, it does get a resurgence now with spin-offs and all
[01:40] [Darkhawk] By that logic, maybe there'll also be some actual, non-sucky superhero/villain game at some point again, but that genre doesn't do well although movies do.
[01:40] [Darkhawk] Also a bit silly, to be sure.
[01:41] [Wheri] I'm barely familiar with Star Wars. Going by what I know, it's not that inspiring to space as much as general-purpose heroism.
[01:41] [Wheri] Hey, we did have City of Heroes. That was actually pretty good!
[01:42] [Darkhawk] Yes, so I heard. But unfortunately it died before I got to try it
[01:42] [Darkhawk] I was curious about Matrix Online as well, but same story
[01:42] [Darkhawk] and the old SWG.
[01:42] [Wheri] I'm just a little bitter. It was the only MMOG centred around aggro manipulation and instances that I enjoyed.
[01:43] [Darkhawk] maybe it died at a good time for you, when you hadn't grown tired of it, hehe
[01:44] [Wheri] I never got into it hardcore, but I did leave and come back a few times, so that's a good sign.
[01:45] [Wheri] The instances were randomly-assembled, so it didn't feel as much like following a script.
[01:46] [Darkhawk] I guess there's no way to play now, no restoration project/pirate server?
[01:46] [Wheri] Oh, that reminds me. I gotta ask our resident Warcraft expert about Warcraft and open-world content. Back when I played, I missed any of it that was worth doing, but according to a friend, I was playing some other game.
[01:47] [Wheri] Not that I know of. There was some sort of emulation project, but I don't think it went anywhere.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] yeah, that'd be usual.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] And yeah, better remember that for when she logs on then.
[01:53] [Wheri] Well, it's in my archive now, so next time I obsessively re-read the thing, I'll spot it and remember to copy-paste it!
[01:53] [Wheri] Or maybe I'll just feel like I've already asked it and don't have to repeat myself. The mind is a wonderful thing!
[01:53] [Darkhawk] hehe
[02:26] [Darkhawk] time to sleep
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[09:52] [Tarragon] Hello
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[15:34] [Darkhawk] heya
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[15:54] [Cyrilion] Afternoon
[15:54] [Darkhawk] Afternoon Cyrilion
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[18:55] [Darkhawk] Hrm, ok I see EVE has changed quite a few things not related to content since the last time I logged in. It's F2P now, and you can buy skillpoint injectors so you don't need actual years to train... Flaarh..
[18:56] [Darkhawk] With a 14 year old char, I'm not thrilled about that ;)
[19:00] [Darkhawk] I also see that there's not much new content for soloers/PVE'ers/peaceloving types added the last years. And that they've changed the music some! Arhhh..
[19:01] [Tarragon] Hello x2
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[21:21] [Tarragon] Night everyone.
[21:21] Tarragon ( left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me
[21:41] [Wheri] Hey, Look, Conan Exiles has hit 1.0.
[21:42] [Darkhawk] yep, saw it. It's a game I'd like to try at some point.
[21:48] [Darkhawk] And The Secret World has been rebooted as a solo/group non-MMO thing with new mechanics and less grind. As TSW Legends. And now I can't use my old ueber char it seems. But F2P.
[21:48] [Darkhawk] TSW remains my favourite MMO in many ways, but they really did kill it with more action and grind instead of puzzles, adventure and great non-violent quests.
[21:49] [Darkhawk] Maybe they'vee gotten back to the good stuff... 'right'
[21:57] [Wheri] I was thinking of giving it a go. The combat felt really slow and grindy, so if they made it more action-based, I'll probably enjoy it more. But the puzzles were definitely the highlight, so...
[22:00] [Darkhawk] As always, I disagree with you, of course ;) Didn't think the combat was bad, or it wasn't my focus. I liked their skill system a lot, because it was so diverse but took a lot of theorycrafting and spreadsheets to min/max ;) Not so good that there're weren't THAT many viable builds to discover, but a lot of ways to gimp your character of course.
[22:00] [Darkhawk] but in any case, the atmosphere and setting were the highlights. Also the dungeons and raid on Nightmare, I enjoyed that a lot with my guild.
[22:10] [Darkhawk] I forget why (again, I remember I have been told several times ;)), but Cyrilion and Tarra didn't fancy TSW when they tried it. Guess that hasn't changed with some new combat and ui mechanics.
[22:13] [Wheri] Yes, we've talked about it. I admitted that it may become more intresting when you unlock more abilities, but found getting to that point very dull, and in general thought seven abilities to a build limited you to essentially one combo and maybe a utility skill or two.
[22:13] [Darkhawk] remind me how far did you play into the game?
[22:23] [Wheri] Not far at all. I think it was the second major map. I remember a haunted amusement park, a paranormal academy, one instance where we fought Cthulhu, and not much else. It's weirdly vague.
[22:23] [Darkhawk] Ah right yes, that's actually where most who stop playing seem to die
[22:24] [Darkhawk] Not a bad area though. Oh well.
[22:25] [Wheri] I definitely went past those, but I can't remember where. Some different kind of wilderness?
[22:27] [Darkhawk] a bit more ocean and beach further up, as well as hills/mountains. Otherwise, you get into the third area of that part of the game.
[22:28] [Darkhawk] If you had some of the expansion issues, the quite amazing 'Vanishing of Tyler Durden' story starts in the second area as well.
[22:28] [Darkhawk] But I guess you hadn't, as that is endgame content afair.
[22:28] [Darkhawk] or was.
[22:29] [Wheri] Yes, I think that's it. Weird, I usually remember games I play much more vividly, but this one just escapes my mind.
[22:29] [Darkhawk] oh yeah, that brings back memories. No other MMO and not many singleplayer games either, did atmosphere and immersion as well as some of those story expansions.
[22:30] [Darkhawk] too bad they were 'endgame' content maybe, but the main game had some glimpses of their quality as well, though the quests/stories were less elaborate.
[22:34] [Wheri] That's a common issue, isn't it. All the fun stuff is months away.
[22:34] [Darkhawk] I dunno, if the basegame didn't feel fun to me, I am not sure I've ever thought it later magically got to be fun.
[22:35] [Darkhawk] but you could frontload some of the best stuff a bit more of course
[22:36] [Wheri] I agree. I can make an exception if they take the extended tutorial approach, but that's a whole different issue in and of itself.
[22:37] [Darkhawk] I just did EVE's new tutorial to see if it does a good job of pulling people in, and it felt horrible to me. But I think I might be over playing EVE solo anymore, which would be the first time I've felt that with EVE. Alas.


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