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[10:03] [Tarragon] Hello
[10:09] [Tarragon] lol @ that fanfic I mentioned yesterday with all the mistakes and such. The author's note at the end actually states that that was the revised version and the original had been taken down and the mistakes and confusing parts in this one were fixed :D. Never do your own proofreading and editing.
[10:09] [Tarragon] I mean sometimes it can't be helped, but still...
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[14:11] [Cyrilion] Afternoon
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[16:03] [Darkhawk] Heya
[16:04] [Darkhawk] Nuala just invited me to her 40 year birthday party. She's still around, if I hadn't said so before. Although not so much online, including here. Dunno if she explained why. But it's not because she hates you ;)
[16:26] [Tarragon] Hello
[16:27] [Tarragon] I know at least :P I still occasionally spoke to her on FB anyway.
[16:56] [Darkhawk] Right :) Wasn't sure if it had come up in discussions here.
[17:33] [Darkhawk] Btw., Planet Explorers is real nice, and not super buggy. Companions are a bit stupid when equipped with melee weapons and the writers don't have English as their first language. But it seems good!
[17:34] [Darkhawk] Not that I have time to constantly play it :( Started next phase of my study today, some stress and drama in getting assigned a group, but I'm in the clear now. I hope ;)
[18:02] [Tarragon] Well, then they also weren't aware of it or had no budget for an editor.
[18:03] [Darkhawk] yeah, it wouldn't have taken many hours to correct and make vastly better.
[18:03] [Darkhawk] Not that it's a trainwreck either.
[18:04] [Tarragon] Regale me with tales of your drama
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[18:23] [Darkhawk] Heh, not too much drama luckily. But always when people have to constitute themselves in groups, people can feel left out, get desperate or reveal their not so nice jockeying-for-position tactics. I've seen people cry and shout and spend hours on it earlier in my study. As for myself, I prefer working on my own of course, but that's not possible. So I've been lucky with a stable group in Odense, watching the drama from afar.
[18:25] [Tarragon] Is that a good sign, for people studying what you do?
[18:25] [Darkhawk] Now, we're 4 new who have to integrate here in Aarhus. I wrote them a week ago and asked if they wanted to try and hook up in a new group. Also told them that if not, I'd try to join 'group 2' because they seemed best for me. So, I don't hear anything for a week, then I write group 2 and also get into the FB page of the study. And there I see that 2 of the new people are trying to join group 2, who wouldn't have room for me as w
[18:25] [Darkhawk] ell then. All without replying. 'Nice'.
[18:25] [Darkhawk] Hehe, is that a leading, rhetorical question?
[18:26] [Darkhawk] Because the answer is obviously 'no' ;D
[18:26] [Tarragon] It was an invitation obviously, to whine about people in general or specifically
[18:26] [Darkhawk] Still, I've been a project lead and other stuff, managing people for many years, so it should be ok.
[18:27] [Darkhawk] Anyway, I had a Skype talk with group 2, and turns out they're nice people and they want me to join them. So, crisis averted, I have my place in the world, all's well.
[18:28] [Darkhawk] Karmic justice that the 2 others now can't find a group. Hah.
[18:28] [Tarragon] Ugh, sorting out your own groups apparently never gets better.
[18:29] [Darkhawk] Think it's a universal constant.
[18:29] [Darkhawk] Was the same in sports during primary school were people had to be picked. Is the same now. Same mechanics, same desperation in not being liked/picked.
[18:30] [Darkhawk] I don't care, except I do. I'd like a good group, or it'd get demotivating.
[18:30] [Tarragon] I was always just hoping, even when friends picked me right off, that they would just tell me not to join at all :P. But that was just because it was sports.
[18:31] [Darkhawk] hehe yes.
[18:31] [Tarragon] Later on I'd just... not join. The teachers eventually despaired of asking me for explanations because what are they going to do? Pull down my pants and check that I'm really bleeding? Somehow check for headaches? Persistence!
[18:34] [Darkhawk] Yeah, that's one way to do it. I kinda' liked sports. At times. Still skipped most of those classes when I could though. But with groups in regards to work/studying, I've always avoided them whenever possible. Still, actually had a good group for a year in Odense, because they didn't get in the way and we had a good, efficient flow. Might even also have learned something about people, becoming SLIGHTLY more tolerant ;)
[18:35] [Tarragon] With my highly uneven skillset I'd either be the one bringing the work down or everyone else'd be holding me back by miles. In Uni it was slightly better.
[18:36] [Darkhawk] No one held me back here, because we all did our pwn parts of the assignment/exam, and they learned not to mess with my parts. Win/win ;)
[18:36] [Tarragon] In uni it was more a problem of being assigned to people who weren't really interested in what they were learning.
[18:36] [Darkhawk] But uni would have been annoying if I had a group back then.
[18:36] [Tarragon] Yeah, but they still bring down the grade.
[18:36] [Darkhawk] nope, not in Denmark anymore, because you get individual grades, also for group work
[18:36] [Tarragon] Nice
[18:37] [Darkhawk] Right-wing people made sure of that, but yeah. Nice in this instance. This ONE instance ;)
[18:37] [Tarragon] It happens
[18:37] [Darkhawk] Wasn't sure it did, but yeah, I can use this as an example
[18:37] [Tarragon] I'm all for actual individual accomplishments not being shared out. Or mistakes.
[18:38] [Darkhawk] absolutely, that'd make it extra stressful being in a group. You don't want to edit/correct the work of others, but you have to, to make sure of the grade. Well, depending on their level and yours obviously.
[18:40] [Tarragon] It was worst with group translations (yeah I know). It was very, very hard not to constantly tell people to change what they put out, or to just not let them do anything and pick all my work for the entire group translation. Which would result in better grades. Which I KNOW because we handed in the same assignments individually as well.
[18:40] [Tarragon] Supposed to be *some* kind of lesson in there? Mine was "I'm so much fucking better than you" :P
[18:40] [Darkhawk] Yes.. That's not the lesson ;)
[18:41] [Tarragon] It wasn't supposed to be anyway.
[18:41] [Tarragon] "Groups do not make for better translations" was probably also not it.
[18:41] [Tarragon] For some reason.
[18:41] [Darkhawk] But yeah, I get it. Luckily I can do my BA project on my own when the time comes, although I can see most do it with others.
[18:41] [Tarragon] When have differing writing styles within the same work ever bveen the better option?
[18:42] [Darkhawk] That's a good lesson, but I think the actual lesson is the same as with us - You need to learn to work together with others and handle conflicts. Booooring.
[18:42] [Tarragon] My way was either let them lead and do what they say or shout over them and bully them until they do what I say.
[18:43] [Tarragon] Would have been nicer to have had them acknowledge that I was the better translator and just listen in the first place, but yeah no. I can at least shout people down if I get pissed off enough.
[18:44] [Darkhawk] yep, that's also mine. If I encounter too much resistance with my suggestions, I just let them do what they want. If they are receptive, I steer them. But no matter what, I really can't stand people changing MY parts of the text, they'd have to be really somethign to be allowed to. Again, not very good at learning that lesson...
[18:44] [Darkhawk] Or being less of an ass/ego ;)
[18:45] [Tarragon] It's not arrogance when it's true :P.
[18:45] [Darkhawk] Heheh
[18:45] [Darkhawk] Unfortunately, it can be both. Complex world!
[18:45] [Tarragon] And if you know you're not always the best every time.
[18:45] *** Darkhawk coughs
[18:45] [Darkhawk] I know. It's possible. In theory ;)
[18:46] [Tarragon] What? I was better than most at translating. Not with all the other classes. Thogu hI did make top 10 grades in my year for the entire study.
[18:46] [Darkhawk] Nah, several people in my old group were better than me in remembering the text obviously. Gave them some advantages.
[18:47] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I haven't gotten less than the highest grade yet in anything. But that's mostly because the study is really easy and dumbed down unfortunately, compared with others.
[18:48] [Tarragon] Among other translators it varies. I'm still pretty good but I don't know every field. Still, I often see literary translations... damn. They don't just hire translators the way other companies do, often ask people specifically. Otherwise I'd have applied long ago.
[18:49] [Darkhawk] But you're still full-time mother, not thinking about part-time translating work?
[18:51] [Tarragon] I'd do that if they paid me the same wages as the other translators, but I get 40% due to disability, and then the government is supposed to add to that until it's the same income as disability income (which is still below minimum wage, so you'd be working and get the same money as... not working), except they word with these odd like groups of income, and if you're just in a higher category
[18:51] [Tarragon] they pay you less to make up, and you end up actually with less than the usual disability income.
[18:52] [Darkhawk] Yeah, in Denmark the government actually pays up to what you'd get for that very same job without disabilities. But it's the same for companies, that only have to pay a lesser percentage. So, incentive for them, but you still get the same wage as others.
[18:53] [Darkhawk] But understandable it isn't tempting for you to work and not get money ;)
[18:56] [Tarragon] Yeah, if they paid me even minimum wage that'd be fine, but why the fuck would I work for 24 hours a week (about the max I can do without entirely falling apart), with my personal life and house suffering for it, and not even get more (and possibly less) than I do if I just take care of my kid and the house?
[18:58] [Darkhawk] Sounds rhetorical!
[18:59] [Tarragon] And 24 hours a week on minimum wage would net me about 400 euros a month more than what I get. Imagine 30-38 hours a week on minimum wage. Seems like riches from here. BF is working at minimum right now too, but not a full week, so together we about earn slightly above minimum wage for 1 person right now
[19:01] [Tarragon] Since we save and don't own a car and stuff, we can drag out a one-week discount holiday a year for Ian. If we're careful. So we're still lucky I guess. We can pay for his school. Right now not for any sports or anything else like that though.
[19:05] [Darkhawk] One can do that for some time, but it starts feeling hard at some point. At least it does for me. Right now I have no income whatsoever, and really have to ration. Money will run out before my study ends. Actually in one year at the latest unless I do something. I'd also really like to do things, holidays or so with my girlfriend, who is also struggling financially. And I worry it's up to me because she has a job that'll wear he
[19:05] [Darkhawk] r out before she gets real old, and she has low pay and low pension. Oh well, grown-up problems...
[19:07] [Tarragon] Well, not really though, because my parents now help out with grocery money so we can pay for Ian's school and clothes and such and not have to eat crap. We can't just move to something cheaper because we make too much money to qualify, though if we went looking for places at this expense right now, we would not be making enough to qualify. So we fall in the gap where we're not poor enough for
[19:07] [Tarragon] aid, but we can't actually pay for shit.
[19:09] [Tarragon] Like 35.000 or so where they declare you middle income which means you can just about get by, and 15.000 where they declare you poor and in need of help. Like, what about everyone else? (and thus, us). They just kind of flounder. Eat crap, never move if you're homed right now because there's nowhere to go, no activities your tv or internet can't provide, skip healthcare where you can.
[19:12] [Darkhawk] yep, same here and most people in that trap don't have the ressources to get out of it. Most people can't entertain themselves and make the best of it either, so they suffer. That's actually a really big part of being a social worker. To help out that segment. Well, I'd like to help out those who are even worse off, but the segment you describe are some of the byproducts of capitalism obviously. Too bad most don't even know it.
[19:12] [Tarragon] Lots of disabled people who are partnered fall into that group.
[19:12] [Tarragon] Not enough money to save, no way out.
[19:14] [Darkhawk] but if they're lucky, they have some, hrm, mental ressources to make the best of it, which can help. Still not how it should be, but I've seen many who just wither away completely because of their situation and no way of dealing with it.
[19:14] [Tarragon] Though now they want partnered disabled people to live off a one-person income of course. No way are they going to pay 2 disability incomes for one household!
[19:15] [Tarragon] BF and I did that for a while when he was in between jobs. I got like 200 euros a month more and that would have to do for 2 people.
[19:17] [Darkhawk] I'm not saying much positive about Denmark, but it sounds better than Holland in the welfare department..
[19:17] [Tarragon] Because you need the extra stress while jobhunting of knowing that in 4 months, your savings are gone and you'll have to go couchsurfing or beg your parents to convert the study.
[19:19] [Tarragon] Heheh. Here, if you're like really poor, below 15.000, the city will pay for 30% of your extracurriculars. Because at that point, you can really think about a gym subscription! Fuck the 30% off.
[19:21] [Tarragon] Do you have foodbanks in Denmark?
[19:23] [Darkhawk] Hrm, depends on the definition or how they are run... perhaps?
[19:24] [Tarragon] Like handing out food for people who just can't pay for it anymore (mostly because health insurance is mandatory).
[19:26] [Darkhawk] nah, not government run, but we have some shelters and private initiatives that do stuff like that. But in Denmark, nobody 'has' to go hungry. Well, they can spend all their welfare money on drugs and such of course, and then they can get extra allowance for food. or place in a shelter or other stuff, because then it's not really about them going hungry, but other problems.
[19:26] [Darkhawk] Biggest problems are the foreign homeless with almost no rights. Danish law has become increasingly hard on them, and not enough places to shelter and feed them as it is.
[19:27] [Tarragon] Well, we officially already qualify if we weren't already being helped out.
[19:29] [Darkhawk] ok, no foie gras in that food, I'm guessing? Or, is foodbank just a word for extra money to buy food for?
[19:30] [Tarragon] No, they hand out actual parcels of food.
[19:34] [Darkhawk] huh. Didn't know you actually had that. Only thought it was failed countries such as Somalia and the U.S. ;)
[19:34] [Tarragon] If I were alone, rent of some social housing would take 70% of my income, insurance another 15%, never mind stuff like water and gas or internet, I might not even be able to afford hot water. I would have no money for food.
[19:38] [Darkhawk] Yeah, here you can get up to 50%ish of your rent paid for you if you're poor and on welfare. Plus the amount you get from welfare in the first place is enough to buy food. Well, it's challenging for people with many children and especially for immigrants, the latter get reduced welfare that you can't actually survive on for long.
[19:46] [Tarragon] I thus also cannot actually ever split up from my partner should I want to (but they could decide to leave of course). I'm not the only disabled person caught in that trap either. There's nowhere to go and some background insecurity constantly even if your relationship is good. If you're very lucky you have friends or parents with an extra room.
[19:47] [Tarragon] Working wouldn't help 2 shits obviously since I'd still not be making minimum wage.
[20:02] [Darkhawk] How come your boyfriend is working minimally, isn't he feeling so well?
[20:03] [Darkhawk] I've noticed btw that more and more use the term 'partner' instead of boyfriend/girlfriend. Probably to signal something. Never liked that word for that, but hey.
[20:03] [Tarragon] Basically the only job he could get in his field. He has his own diagnoses. His company is 'for autistic people' so guess what they're not going to pay people. Right, anything higher than minimum wage.
[20:03] [Darkhawk] in Danish we have the term 'kæreste' for both genders.
[20:05] [Tarragon] Because it's like charity right? Employing weirdos. Be happy they're paying you real people wages at all, you could be putting together birdhouses for 50 euros a month in a special people place.
[20:05] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I do remember him having his own diagnoses. But can't he work part time at some normal company that doesn't pay minimum wage? Sounds a bit like slavery. Cyrilion gets a normal pay as well, despite being autistic (at least I hope so ;)). In Denmark you can't get away with paying people less because of some diagnosis. you can however not hire them, or just hire them part time of course. Or fire them if they don't 'perform' enoug
[20:06] [Darkhawk] Well, good thing you're not bothered by all this at all!
[20:06] [Tarragon] He can't quite cut it in the regular business world, used to work for the univeristies but then you have no job security and basically work for a few months at a time, project to project.
[20:06] [Cyrilion] I get normal pay for the hours I work. Disability to cover the rest
[20:07] [Tarragon] universities*
[20:08] [Darkhawk] yeah, that's the fleksjob/skånejob thing I was talking about earlier where the government pays the rest of the hours so you get full pay for part time work. Plus that it's more than minimum pay. Good stuff really, too bad there's not enough of that.
[20:08] [Tarragon] BF gets minimum wage, no extras, I'd get 40% minimum wage, with government paying up to max 70% minimum wage.
[20:09] [Tarragon] I mean they'd add until it's 70% minimum wage.
[20:09] [Tarragon] Which is what I get now.
[20:11] [Darkhawk] Yeah, sounds 'great'. But hey, at least - no birdcages.
[20:12] [Tarragon] ?
[20:13] [Darkhawk] birdhouses!
[20:14] [Darkhawk] You get money AND you don't have to assemble them
[20:15] [Tarragon] No, but those people get the money too. That's just the only work they usually associate with like autistic people, like let them do some work so they feel meaningful and hey they even get a little money! Must feel so real and fulfilling now.
[20:16] [Tarragon] They do it so they have anything at all to do during the day. A lot of people don't do well with structuring their own time or coming up with things to do.
[20:28] [Darkhawk] indeed they don't. It is a force to be able to do that. I guess it's what makes me prefer freedom over money and monotony. Well ok, that could also be a drawback, depending ;)
[21:47] [Tarragon] And off. Hopefully sleeping in tomorrow. Night everyone.
[21:47] Tarragon (Tarragon@5ED286C6.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me






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