[10:21] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ip185-125-221-96.ip.asom-net.dk) joined #seed.
[10:21] [Cyrilion] Morning
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[12:19] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ip185-125-221-65.ip.asom-net.dk) joined #seed.
[15:17] Darkhawk (~Miranda@87-49-147-175-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #seed.
[15:17] [Darkhawk] Heya
[15:50] [der_Tommi] Hello Darkhawk.
[15:50] [der_Tommi] Still busy?
[15:51] [der_Tommi] Would now be a good time to reintroduce the topic of meeting in real life (the two of us, or a full Seed meet)?
[15:51] [der_Tommi] You said spring would be a good time for that.
[15:53] [Darkhawk] yeah, less so after middle of spring comes around I think. You can gauge it by how much I'm online here. Still working on apartment, looking for a job rather actively, restarting education in february. And maybe not so full of surplus energy to be social. Yeah, spring maybe, or summer for the weather, and yeah, could be the tow of us or we could try a Seed meet :) I'd rather not think ahead just yet though, prefer to deal with o
[15:53] [Darkhawk] ne thing at a time, checklist wise when I'm a bit pressed for time.
[15:54] [der_Tommi] OK.
[18:24] Tarragon (Tarragon@5ED28D04.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #seed.
[18:25] [Tarragon] Hello
[18:27] [Tarragon] Is it really your birthday or is that just the date you gave Facebook?
[18:28] *** Darkhawk checks who Tarragon is referring to
[18:28] [Darkhawk] and hey
[18:28] [Darkhawk] Oh, not me. Check ;)
[18:28] [Darkhawk] And right, congratulations Tommi
[18:28] [Darkhawk] still so young
[18:29] *** Wheri doesn't even have Facebook.
[18:31] [Tarragon] Seems real yeah, so happy birthday Tommi
[18:32] [Tarragon] Brother has procreated again. They must really be feening for those kids because his GF's last pregnancy did not go so great and she's 40 now.
[18:37] [Darkhawk] last call then
[18:37] [Darkhawk] maybe it can save their marriage, that's the hope for many. And then it crashes!
[18:37] [Darkhawk] That's me, moral support
[18:38] [Tarragon] They're not married though :D
[18:38] [Darkhawk] pfft, newschool
[18:38] [Tarragon] Sinners, all of us.
[18:38] [Wheri] Kids, I'm assuming living together...
[18:47] [der_Tommi] Oh, yeah, it's the day when random people I've not heard of in years (or maybe exactly a year) congratulate me over Facebook. And yes, it's based on the actual moment of my birth.
[18:48] [der_Tommi] Thanks for the congratulations, though, you non-random people. :)
[18:49] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I don't have my birthday listed, for reasons like that ;)
[18:50] [Darkhawk] I also find it stressful to be socially obligated to say 'congratulations, I really feel you' that one time of year where FB tells me about some random persons birthday ;)
[18:51] [der_Tommi] Hmm. I should probably remove it too. But not today, in case someone actually cared and notices.
[18:51] [Darkhawk] But I'm having my birthday soon too! And as my REAL FRIENDS here on #seed, you'll of course remember the date anyway, and say congrats!
[18:52] [Wheri] So am I!
[18:52] [Darkhawk] wooh!
[18:52] [der_Tommi] But yeah, 37 years. I remember when you told me the 30ies are the best time of your life. I wait eagerly for your review on the 40ies... :)
[18:52] [Darkhawk] We can just say congrats each day until we hit the right one
[18:53] [Darkhawk] oh right, I said that. I guess I said the COULD be, but yeah, depending on many factors, some things might start coming together well in the 30ies.
[18:53] [Darkhawk] In the 40ies, everything is over. Review end.
[18:55] [der_Tommi] I'm not saying you were wrong. It's certainly come together career-wise. Might be even able to shift towards game design and boss other programmers around this year.
[18:55] [der_Tommi] Still not feeling 100% like an adult though.. :)
[18:56] [Darkhawk] didn't you also have some, I dunno, social/dating successes?
[18:58] [der_Tommi] Can't say that's been that different.
[18:58] [Darkhawk] oh well
[18:59] [Darkhawk] I feel like an adult because I have a winecooler
[19:02] [der_Tommi] I guess improving my social life is like starting to exercise is for many other people.. You say every now and then that it's going to change, you're going to do this thing or that thing, but it never pans out in the long term, because you're not actually motivated, you just think you should be.
[19:03] [Darkhawk] or you're super lonely, but it'd hurt too much to acknowledge that, so over the years you tell yourself it's just not that important. Mwahah, Darkhawk, destroyer of souls.
[19:03] [Darkhawk] Or I mean, could be something in between those extremes as well
[19:04] [Wheri] I mean, it is not that important. Hardly important at all.
[19:05] [Darkhawk] Could be, for some people it's fine and there are no underlying issues. They just like it. Most of us are a mix.
[19:06] [Tarragon] I'm fairly much of a misanthropic hermit. Still, if I didn't have BF etc I'd probably try harder for meeting one or two other people.
[19:07] [Wheri] It's weird. I keep hearing "oh, you should get a girlfriend! Hey, what if I introduced you to...?"
[19:07] [Wheri] And they never do. They never do, is the weird thing!
[19:07] [Darkhawk] or a boyfriend, don't be so hetero-normal...
[19:07] [Tarragon] Says you.
[19:07] [Wheri] Don't tell me, tell them!
[19:08] [Darkhawk] It's not my fault!
[19:08] [Darkhawk] Hehe yes, not sure I'd dare tell them, I might be put in prison ;)
[19:08] [Wheri] I don't think it works like that, but yeah. No reason not to be on the safe side, here.
[19:08] [der_Tommi] Oh, I meet people. I meet lots of people, I just don't really connect with many of them.
[19:09] [Darkhawk] And Wheri, you need to appear a bit more entused for those people to actually want to introduce you, I'm guessing ;)
[19:09] [Tarragon] I have active aversion to most of the new people I meet, unfortunately. I'm sure it's mutual.
[19:10] [der_Tommi] My newest decision is actually to try to meet *fewer* people but somehow still meet enough of them to find a boyfriend...
[19:11] [Wheri] I usually respond with something like "yeah, it'll be a laugh. For you, at least". Is that not enthused enough? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
[19:11] [Tarragon] OKC?
[19:11] [Darkhawk] No Wheri.. No ;)
[19:11] [der_Tommi] That does sound a bit counter-productive, Wheri.
[19:11] [Wheri] Uhh... "okay, go ahead, introduce us... all night long"?
[19:12] [Darkhawk] Yeah Tommi, it's about meeting the right types, but unless you know where they are, quantity might help ;)
[19:12] [Wheri] But I'm promising that even if I don't get something out of it, they still do!
[19:12] [Tarragon] The problem is halfway that most people our age-ish already have their social circles and aren't really looking for additions.
[19:13] [der_Tommi] The problem is I'm not very quick at sampling masses of people to find the right ones.
[19:13] [der_Tommi] And I already know enough of the right types of people, but none of them have become my boyfriend for some reason...
[19:14] [Tarragon] Especially not additions that aren't easy and socially capable.
[19:14] [Darkhawk] yeah, it's way more difficult getting friends in 'our' age because of the somewhat solidified circles.
[19:14] [der_Tommi] (Right type in terms of connectability, that is.)
[19:14] [Darkhawk] Still, online gaming, then that's easy. Or at work, or if you have the right kind of hobby, like sports. I don't do any of the three ;)
[19:14] [Tarragon] I'm work no matter which way you look at it even when I'm really trying.
[19:16] [Darkhawk] you change the meaning of that word to fit your sentence, pft.
[19:16] [Darkhawk] But yes, that's a hurdle
[19:16] [Wheri] Yeah, no. I've been online gaming pretty much ever since I could do that; and but a single contact was formed in over 10 years.
[19:17] [der_Tommi] Well, the sports hobby has been one of my two main vectors. The other is a bar where people with nothing better to do come to drink every Thursday. I still work alone at home, though, so that's not gonna work (and it wouldn't be likely to produce a boyfriend anyway, unless I radically change careers).
[19:17] [Darkhawk] sure, I myself have also slowed down with new contacts or friends. Way down.
[19:17] [der_Tommi] I can find gaming buddies just fine. Two RP campaigns going with the same people right now.
[19:18] [Darkhawk] Yeah, maybe you're actually the most social here Tommi ;)
[19:18] [Darkhawk] actually you might be. Then I think I take second place.
[19:18] [Darkhawk] Or not, if Tarra counts her family
[19:18] [Tarragon] And I'm not interested in meeting up more than once every months or so, don't drink, can't keep up a conversation if we're doing anything else but sitting in someone's living room, etc.
[19:18] [der_Tommi] Well, I still can't participate in a non-moderated discussion with more than 3 people.
[19:18] [Wheri] Yeah. Yeah. Maybe finding a new RPG group nearby is a good idea, if only to find people to game with.
[19:18] [Tarragon] I really don't see my family *that* often.
[19:19] [der_Tommi] Tarragon: Do you find that that state of things is a problem for you?
[19:19] [Wheri] I mean, I have one that gathers maybe once a half-year, if we're lucky. And that's a good campaign, I've really enjoyed the 3 sessions we had over the last 2 years!
[19:19] [Tarragon] Not usually, mostly only if I consider what would happen if one of the current relationships were to disappear, like what if BF and I ever separated, etc.
[19:20] [Darkhawk] Sounds like that bothers you because of the inherent safety in having an established circle then Tarra.
[19:20] [der_Tommi] One of my main issues, which I kind of hoped to solve my moving to the gay capital of the continent, was that there's hardly any gay communities for the things I *actually* like, like roleplaying. Most of my roleplaying friends in Finland seem to have paired up with other roleplayers...
[19:20] [Tarragon] Yep.
[19:20] [Darkhawk] yeah, RP gaming is the best form of being social with some people. Also boardgaming really.
[19:20] [Darkhawk] Fits better with some social drinking afterwards too, or hanging out.
[19:21] [Wheri] Afterwards? We do during.
[19:21] [der_Tommi] Well, there's a small group of boardgaming gay people here. I've tried them out a couple of times. Unfortunately, I hate boardgames. Maybe I should try Cards against Humanity with them, though... That's at least social.
[19:22] [Wheri] And then we argued for hours about whether Cards Against Humanity is a good game.
[19:22] [der_Tommi] Or more precisely, I hate the kind of board games that seem to be hip these days - multiplayer solitaires like Puerto Rico.
[19:23] [Wheri] I haven't heard of that one, but... Eurogames, I assume?
[19:23] [der_Tommi] Yes.
[19:24] [der_Tommi] Where the biggest interaction you have with others is that you take the card that the other player wanted to take.
[19:24] [Darkhawk] Puerto Rico is too simple for what my friends and I are playing
[19:24] [Wheri] Huh. Unless they've really changed in the last few years, I'm probably still into those. I'm not very competitive, you see.
[19:25] [der_Tommi] It's still competitive. You feel like shit when someone declares victory and you were still only getting started with your solitaire. But no, those were like that when I was in the uni too.
[19:25] [der_Tommi] I do love Alias, though. Can get pretty damn cutthroat competitive in it... Not everyone liked that.
[19:26] [Wheri] Alias, not sure I remember what it actually is. Mafia or Charades?
[19:27] [der_Tommi] You explain words.
[19:27] [der_Tommi] The quintessential word explanation game basically.
[19:27] [Wheri] Without saying the word. Yeah. I like those.
[19:27] [der_Tommi] Might be called something else outside Finland.
[19:27] [der_Tommi] Yes, without saying the word.
[19:29] [Wheri] Yeah; fun stuff. Then there's Mafia, but good luck getting 8+ people together.
[19:30] [der_Tommi] But yeah, it's always the same question for me: Should I focus on the kind of social life that I actually enjoy, or should I (stressfully) push the envelope and go to "bad" social situations in order to find a boyfriend.
[19:30] [Darkhawk] the first, for sure. Don't think you'll have that much luck finding a boyfriend in those stressful situations anyway.
[19:31] [der_Tommi] But I have *no* change finding a boyfriend in those less stressful ones.
[19:31] [Darkhawk] well then... No boyfriend. Check ;)
[19:31] [Wheri] Must be harder for you. I'm at least nominally heterosexual, and no. Everyone is "with someone".
[19:32] [Darkhawk] isn't there something about the gender ratio being skewered in your country?
[19:32] [Wheri] 30 years ago, maybe.
[19:33] [der_Tommi] I mean, I might of course run into one or two gay guys in the roleplaying circles. (Though two is stretching it given that I still like to have *small* roleplaying circles.) But it's still not very likely we'll be a match.
[19:34] [Wheri] I think the idea with that is, it was in the post-revolution, post-war years, hence the women around here are prettier than is average elsewhere... but it's still 55/45 at most.
[19:35] [der_Tommi] I have no idea how to follow that logic.
[19:35] [Wheri] Me neither.
[19:35] [der_Tommi] Are you sure you meant to say "prettier"?
[19:35] [Wheri] Yes.
[19:36] [der_Tommi] Okay.
[19:37] [Wheri] I'm just relaying what I think I heard; I don' t really understand it, either.
[19:38] [der_Tommi] Well then, good for you, surrounded by all those pretty women, I guess.
[19:38] [Wheri] Yep. All those pretty women you can't touch. Perfect.
[19:39] [Wheri] At least there's always someone to catch the eye, I suppose.
[19:41] [Darkhawk] You can't touch women in general when they're running around, really ;)
[19:42] [der_Tommi] Well, I guess I'll still keep going to that gay sport group and try to socialize with them as best I can. I'll be doing sport anyway, and there are some nice people there, albeit no great matches in terms of interest.
[19:42] [Darkhawk] how did that certainly-not-pedo thing work out for you so far Tommi, btw?
[19:43] [der_Tommi] It's been nice the two times I've done it so far. It'll start again in two weeks.
[19:44] [Darkhawk] oh great, so there's that as well. In your life I mean, unrealted to the dating ;)
[19:44] [der_Tommi] Not a great place to find a boyfriend either, though, even though some of the fathers aren't bad.
[19:45] [Wheri] But yeah. The point I was maybe sort of trying to make? All the social things I've been to, everyone is with someone; unless I somehow make my way into a mostly-girl group, not happening.
[19:45] [Darkhawk] But you never know, the more places you frequent. As long as you like being there.
[19:45] [Wheri] And gays... I did tell you about that one time they brought me a lad as a New Year's present, didn't I?
[19:45] [Darkhawk] well Wheri, that's where online dating comes in!
[19:46] [der_Tommi] You never know if you'll win the lottery either, yet I still don't play.
[19:46] [Darkhawk] no, you didn't Wheri, sounds thoughtful of your friends!
[19:46] [der_Tommi] Yeah, online dating is probably the worst offender when it comes to those things I feel I should be doing more, yet am not motivated at all.
[19:47] [Wheri] Very thoughtful, I'll admit. At least they did actually introduce me to someone!
[19:47] [der_Tommi] OK, you should now tell us about that.
[19:48] [Darkhawk] I think in my whole life, I've just once been 'introduced' to someone via friends. Or ok, my ex held a party, and I hooked up with a girl there. Guess that kinda' coutns. But in Denmark we don't do this sort of hooking a friend up thing very much. It's not a thing. Dunno with other countries.
[19:48] [der_Tommi] It's never been a thing in my circles either.
[19:49] [Wheri] There really isn't that much to tell, but if you insist. So for a couple of months, I rented a flat with a drinking buddy and his girlfriend, right? Comes the New Year's celebrations, and everyone's partying.
[19:49] [der_Tommi] There's one American guy here who's hinted at such things. I should probably hang with him more, even though he's kind of a clown...
[19:50] [Wheri] And I think the girlfriend notices that I'm hardly socialising with anyone, and she decides to do me a favour. Or it may have been one of the drinking buddy's buddies, it really doesn't matter at this point.
[19:51] [Wheri] So they look in their own social circles, and they see this other bloke, who they think isn't socialising with anyone, and they hatch this brilliant plan: what if we bring those two forever alones together and see what happens?
[19:52] [Darkhawk] this sounds kinda' classic
[19:53] [Wheri] I'll tell you what happens: nothing happens! Because sexual orientation! Doesn't Work! Like! That!
[19:54] [der_Tommi] OK, I missed a beat. Did they try to bring you two together sexually? It sounded like they just wanted you to have someone to chat with. Or was it some kind of an orgy?
[19:55] [Darkhawk] they just wanted to see what appened. Maybe awkward silence ;)
[19:56] [Wheri] No, not overtly sexual. The closest they came up with was "oh no, we managed to clog the sink! Why don't you two manly men fix it?". Well, we fixed it. Then I think their own drama took over and they left us alone.
[19:57] [der_Tommi] Ah, I see.
[19:57] [Darkhawk] Sounds like a stressful situation, if you have social anxiety at least.
[19:58] [Darkhawk] if not, it just sounds awkward ;)
[19:59] [der_Tommi] Fortunately, the closest thing to that I can share is my grandmother (in her last, rather demented years) talking about how she knows some nice girls..
[19:59] [Darkhawk] I remember my mom asking me if I was gay, because I hadn't hooked up with girlfriends yet when I was 13 years old...
[20:00] [Darkhawk] Or shown any interest at all. But hey.. Amiga! Took all my focus.
[20:00] [der_Tommi] Okay... Your mom a hippie?
[20:00] [Darkhawk] Not at all, no
[20:00] [Wheri] A bit awkward, maybe. The party ended up pretty much celebrating in a few smaller groups, and I did get a mini fondue set to try out, so we did that. If I recall, one other bloke decided to join us for that, too, because he had enough booze and wanted something sweet, as well.
[20:00] [der_Tommi] My mom was only concerned about whether there was porn circulating in the neighbourhood. Otherwise she left that topic very well alone.
[20:00] [Darkhawk] Around that time she also told me it was ok to hire a sexworker. Yeah, she's a bit atypical ;)
[20:01] [Wheri] Heh. I think mine would be weirded out if I brought anyone home. Man, woman, camel, doesn't matter.
[20:01] [der_Tommi] Okay... That's something.
[20:02] [Wheri] We're weirdoes!
[20:02] [Darkhawk] my father was rather weirded out when I had two girlfriends at the same time, but my mother took it in stride.
[20:02] [Darkhawk] We all are here, yes ;)
[20:02] [Tarragon] Heh, my mom was mostly concerned that we knew sex was OK! And nice! And that we could! And knew how! My parents used to be hippies.
[20:02] [Darkhawk] and in so many ways! It's great
[20:03] [der_Tommi] I guess we were a puritanian neighbourhood. Except the one family where the father let his son read his porn magazines, of course. (In a most responsible, well-adjusted way.)
[20:03] [Wheri] ... to be fair, I don't think she really understands what sex even is. Guess who didn't get The Talk.
[20:03] [der_Tommi] How old were you then, Darkhawk?
[20:04] [Tarragon] And that they have friends who are gay and that's normal! And friends who are poly and that's also normal! And I was like, uhm, yes. I know. Later on of course I realised that I knew because they did in fact say so regularly and I was raised like hippie-ish far left.
[20:04] [der_Tommi] And no talk for us either. They let the school handle all that. The porn lecture was literally the only thing we got.
[20:04] [Wheri] Did get a skank twice his age (estimated) in his bed, one time, though.
[20:05] [Wheri] Ha ha ha ha ha the school!
[20:05] [Wheri] I don't think they do that even now!
[20:05] [Darkhawk] I never got the talk anyway, my parents sorta skipped that part. Was ok ;)
[20:05] [Tarragon] I had the talk like 6 times. It was more like a bunch of small talks. Started when I was 5 and my mom was pregnant with my youngest brother. By then we knew how he was going to come out, and we were wondering, how the fuck did he get in there then?
[20:05] [der_Tommi] (And only after my friend stupidly suggested out loud that there was porn on a diskette he gave me. (There wasn't.))
[20:05] [Darkhawk] I was 16 I guess, Tommi. And still hadn't shown interest in girls or boys for that matter back then. Guess she got more and more desperate ;)
[20:06] [Tarragon] And then the talk was repeated in more detail as years went by. And also safety etc.
[20:07] [Tarragon] By the time we went over it in biology when I was 13 or so, they told me nothing new. That was a bonus on the test.
[20:07] [Darkhawk] yeah, I remember our school taught it as well of course. Guess that's common
[20:08] [der_Tommi] The education at school was pretty awkward, obviously. Especially when our otherwise very jovial, brolike gym teacher had to do it. You could tell he really didn't want to be there at the time.
[20:08] [Wheri] No, that's not! I do remember them explaining that if frostbitten, booze. Also, workshop safety.
[20:08] [Tarragon] There are still details I think they forgot that are more important to tell your kids than some other stuff we did get. Like: lube. FFS lube. Tell your kids. Buy it for them if you have to.
[20:09] [der_Tommi] I didn't know straight people used lube. So I guess they did miss that.
[20:10] [Tarragon] I didn't know either! Until I did. Gross oversight.
[20:10] [der_Tommi] Workshop safety is very important, though.
[20:10] [Wheri] It is!
[20:10] [Wheri] Fingers: important. If it helps you keep yours, you better learn it!
[20:11] [der_Tommi] Yeah. Turn *off* the wheelsaw before having sex on it.
[20:11] [Tarragon] Don't cut towards yourself, too.
[20:11] [Tarragon] Always away.
[20:11] [der_Tommi] Yes.
[20:11] [Tarragon] Turn off the appliance before you clean it.
[20:12] [Tarragon] Learned that one the hard way.
[20:12] [Wheri] Eye protection! Hands off moving parts! Look both ways before pressing button! What are you doing in the firing range?! The gun is always loaded! Don't point at something you don't intend to shoot!
[20:12] [Tarragon] It short-circuited and the school had to buy a new one. And add a line to their safety lessons I guess.
[20:12] [Tarragon] Don't walk in front of the dart board are you stupid?
[20:13] [der_Tommi] I thought the military for kids thing was new... It was in the news and all..
[20:13] [Wheri] Sorry, I tried target shooting for a bit, that bled over.
[20:13] [Tarragon] I like guns but they are just too loud for me. Had to wear earplugs and the mufflers.
[20:14] [Tarragon] And it still hurt.
[20:15] [Wheri] I enjoyed my time with the gun, though. Maybe if I tried that a year later, I could've become a marksman. I don't think there's that much opportunity to shoot for me now.
[20:15] [Darkhawk] So Tarra, why don't you think your parents are hippies anymore, have they gotten too rich and comfy, or even worse, are they starting to develop everyday-racistic traits?
[20:15] [der_Tommi] I hated the thing in the military.
[20:16] [Wheri] "Our" military is not a military I'd ever want to try.
[20:16] [Tarragon] My dad has white-guy-with-a-job-over-50 syndrome yeah. My mom is as she always was, there's just no hippies anymore.
[20:17] [Wheri] Strange thing for a milsimmer to say, innit?
[20:19] [Tarragon] Fantasy is just that!
[20:20] [Darkhawk] ah yes, that happens a lot. It's a bit sad, to know that the (right) values you once had, are in danger og shiftign with the changes in your own life. Can be good as well of course, but when you had the right views, it's sad. To know that even the best can fall. Alas.
[20:20] [Darkhawk] of shifting...
[20:21] [Tarragon] "OMG, the world changing the way I wanted means I actually have less say in things, and I never truly thought about what that would be like!" Just a lot of people who weren't really all that left wing, they just had really bad imaginations.
[20:22] [der_Tommi] Leftism means people have less say in things? Outside communism?
[20:22] [Wheri] What if the values were never right to begin with? Or if you really got no values at all, and now people seem to think that I was supposed to have some, and get upset when I don't?
[20:22] [Darkhawk] Most people are left-wing because it suits their own interests, and when it doesn't, of course they gravitate away from it. Means there's even less of a left-wing than people usually think. But it's also very human.
[20:22] [der_Tommi] (I assume that quote was meant to be a leftist quote.)
[20:23] [Tarragon] Turns out you might actually have a female boss you know.
[20:23] [Tarragon] Or like, non-hetero, non-cis kids.
[20:23] [Wheri] You know, I've always wondered: where doesn the cis thing come from? I know the CIS, which is Postsovietia, but I don't think that's related.
[20:24] [Tarragon] People also get upset when it turns out I have certain values, but no ethics.
[20:24] [Tarragon] Like none.
[20:24] [der_Tommi] Are you asking what the term means, Wheri? Or who made it up?
[20:24] [Darkhawk] Well Wheri, as long as you don't hurt innocents, you can have all the values, or lack thereof you want in peace, without others having the right to be upset about it. You can tell them that, I'm sure they'll listen ;)
[20:24] [Darkhawk] and ok 'innocents' opens a floodgate for interpretation.
[20:24] [Wheri] Fascinating. I'm all ethics, no real values to speak of.
[20:24] [Wheri] Where the term comes from.
[20:25] [Wheri] I think I understand what it means.
[20:25] [Wheri] But it always sounded derogatory to me, somehow?
[20:25] [Darkhawk] pft, most people use values/morality and ethics so haphazard, I could point out everyone has ethics even if they don't think they follow a system. But instead, I'll go finish this job-application...
[20:26] [Tarragon] Yeah ok, but people assume based on my morals that I also have certain ethics, and I don't.
[20:26] [der_Tommi] Latin: "on this side of", according to Wikipedia.
[20:26] [Tarragon] Liek any qualms about lying, stealing ,etc.
[20:30] [Tarragon] If I'm switching them again just let me know and adjust accordingly.
[21:41] [Tarragon] Bedtime soon, night everyone.
[21:41] Tarragon (Tarragon@5ED28D04.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me
[23:15] [Darkhawk] hrm, need a reset.
[23:15] Darkhawk (~Miranda@87-49-147-175-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) left irc: Quit: Darkhawk
[23:27] Cyrilion (~Cyrilion@ip185-125-221-65.ip.asom-net.dk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:51] Darkhawk (~Miranda@87-49-147-175-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #seed.
[23:51] [Darkhawk] Sure, was a long restart, but at least that means my computer still works ;)
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