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[05:12] [Darkhawk] off!
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[10:51] [Cyrilion] Morning
[13:29] Darkhawk (~Miranda@212.27.19.2.bredband.3.dk) joined #seed.
[13:30] [Darkhawk] Hullo
[13:31] [Cyrilion] Hallo Darkhawk
[13:32] [Darkhawk] What's up, something interesting? :)
[13:32] [Cyrilion] Erm.. No?
[13:33] [Cyrilion] Still waiting on my company to figure out what they want to do, so still in Limbo on that regard.
[13:34] [Cyrilion] Gaming related, trying out the new Zachtronics game and trying to complete Divinity original sin coop
[13:34] [Darkhawk] Bet you love Limbo ;) But yeah, that can take months or even years.
[13:34] [Darkhawk] Oh, the first one, or the new one? And coop, how is that working out, I'm curious.
[13:35] [Cyrilion] Enhanced edition. Not the new game
[13:36] [Cyrilion] Was quite interesting at first with the dual dialogue system. Later game I more or less just want it to be over with. Inventory system is... ack
[13:37] [Darkhawk] 'funny to manage'? ;)
[13:38] [Darkhawk] As I recall, later portions are also way more hack and slash than the first one, so less RPG stuff, and more just running around fighting and looting.
[13:38] [Darkhawk] Maybe DOS2 is better.
[13:38] [Cyrilion] If you manage to stay on top of it, I suppose it could work. But playing with someone else, you don't just stop to do several minutes of inventory management after each little fight
[13:39] [Darkhawk] So you're saying your room is squeaky clean ;)
[13:40] [Darkhawk] But yeah, that inventory did get filled up awfully quickly
[13:40] [Cyrilion] If it actually had a bulk limit, that might've helped
[13:45] [Darkhawk] Yeah, that'd be arbitrary though. You can carry any amount of unwieldy stuff in your small backpack, but you can only carry 'x' weight. That's halfway between realistic and gamey. Better with either extreme imo.
[13:46] [Darkhawk] But maybe a donkey, carrying all your stuff.
[13:47] [Darkhawk] And yeah, it's still arbitrary because you don't have unending pockets now either. Maybe some sort of magical item, bag of unlimited holding. But no, inventories still have to be gamey in most/all games.
[13:48] [Darkhawk] part of the gamingsystems taking time. Works okish solo, but yeah. I can see what you mean. But how is the RP and wandering off on each other, does it feel right?
[13:48] [Cyrilion] Some explanation for why we can carry all that is not what I'm looking for. It's some gamey system that makes it easy to find what I'm looking for. One that preferably don't change to another sort order entirely when crafting
[13:49] [Darkhawk] Hehe, maybe DOS2 will be more thought through there.
[13:51] [Cyrilion] You certainly have the option to cause some IC angst for your companion. And it works well in regards to figuring out what to say in those dialogues. Well.. with one of the playes losing if you disagree
[13:52] [Cyrilion] Dual dialogue could've been used a bit more than it is, I think. Especially in late game
[13:52] [Darkhawk] Yeah, black/white of course, since other solutions would be too complex.
[13:53] [Cyrilion] We did end up agreeing more than disagreeing, so.. yeah
[13:53] [Darkhawk] Yep, I thought the first half of DOS was great, but then the non-combat content, that for me was the most fun, started to disappear. Hope the pacing is better in the next.
[13:54] [Darkhawk] If I had am RPG/gamer girlfriend, I might play it with her, but as it is, it'd not interest her. Also, I don't like games where you get less story and experiences out of playing coop, but it sounds like DOS might have/get it working.
[13:54] [Darkhawk] am = a
[13:55] [Cyrilion] There's also an annoying element to coop in who has to initiate dialogue to make listening work all the time
[13:55] [Cyrilion] That's something you learn to work with, though
[13:55] [Darkhawk] oh. weird they didn't fix that
[13:56] [Cyrilion] It's mainly when you "use" something that launches the dialogue system. Rather than actually talking with someone
[13:56] [Cyrilion] Aaand the broken chat scrolling for the listener.
[14:00] [Darkhawk] Hehe, yeah ok. How far into it are you now?
[14:00] [Darkhawk] And how long did it take?
[14:01] [Cyrilion] Not playing that often these days. Once a week now, I think. We're level 20
[14:01] [Cyrilion] Playtime... hmm..
[14:02] [Cyrilion] Huh. Steam says 131 hours
[14:02] [Cyrilion] Probably some running the game while on long vreaks in there
[14:03] [Cyrilion] You completed it, right?
[14:03] [Darkhawk] yup
[14:04] [Darkhawk] in maybe 50-60 hours
[14:04] [Cyrilion] Yeah. 120 hours probably aren't too far off, then. Considering our relative gaming speeds...
[14:05] [Darkhawk] Hehe, dunno.
[14:05] [Darkhawk] But that's a lot of hours to do coop with someone at least.
[14:05] [Cyrilion] Yeah
[14:07] [Cyrilion] Oh. One last coop annoyance: It does not like being hosted behind a NAT
[14:07] [Cyrilion] And the savegame is a local save on the host machine. So no inventory management unless host is running
[14:10] [Darkhawk] hehe, I never heard about these issues when reading reviews of the coop. Good to know.
[14:12] [Cyrilion] Have to clarify the NAT thing a bit. You can port forward without issues. I'm just behind a carrier grade NAT, unfortunately
[14:13] [Darkhawk] Always lots of problems with that in games of course.
[14:13] [Darkhawk] Or atleast there was. It's gotten better with P2P
[14:15] [Cyrilion] Or integrated with Steam or what have we. Been a while since I encountered trouble with it last
[14:18] [Darkhawk] I often encounter trouble because we play those old, great tunrbased strategy games. HoMM3 is the worst ;)
[14:25] Tarragon (Tarragon@5ED28D04.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #seed.
[14:25] [Tarragon] Hello
[14:25] [Darkhawk] Hey Tarra
[14:25] [Cyrilion] Hey Tarra
[14:34] [Darkhawk] Tarra, I played around half of Dreamfall Chapters yesterday. It's great. I mean, really. Better than any adventure I've played for several years. Ok, might have forgotten most, but still. And there's no action/dying of stress. Great production value as well, they really took their time with this.
[14:35] [Darkhawk] It's in the 'not really an adventure, more of a story where you walk around' style, with super simple 'puzzles'. There's more choice and consequence than in most RPG's though, which is also why I say many adventures have more RP'ing than RPG's.
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[15:57] [Darkhawk] I discovered what makes me disconnect all the time. It's my piratey app that hides how much GB I use from my ISP. That app is the reason I can have unlimited GB per month over a phone connection to my PC, so it's rather useful, although it's annoying it happens. Also didn't happen with X-Chat for some hard to pinpoint reason, but X-Chat... costs money!!!
[16:29] [der_Tommi] Hmm. How to get some kids in ones life, without a) needing a relationship (with someone who also wants them, to boot), or b) looking like a paedophile?
[16:29] [Darkhawk] Some kind of volunteer work with children?
[16:30] [Darkhawk] b might still apply
[16:31] [Darkhawk] lots of that though. With not much education, you could get a part time job as teacher or kindergarden something. Or with sports or coding-pirates (or the German equivalent - kids who meet up and code, helped by adults). Lots of stuff that way, facilitating children's hobbies.
[16:31] [der_Tommi] Yeah, sounds like b would totally apply, since I'm an old male person. But it's not impossible. No idea what kind of volunteer work there even is, though. I looked for "tutoring" (teaching science to kids would be fun) but all I found was sites for actual professionals.
[16:32] [der_Tommi] Hmm. Coding-pirates doesn't sound too bad.
[16:32] [Darkhawk] no, I thought applying for a job as project-lead there. But I think it's still only a Danish initiative maybe
[16:33] [Darkhawk] maybe there's something equivalent in Germany. Same with other interests that children like. Boardgaming too I'd recon.
[16:33] [Darkhawk] But.. why? If not b? ;)
[16:34] [der_Tommi] Because there's a certain... longing that's appeared in the last few years. And my brothers aren't doing their jobs as straight guys...
[16:34] [der_Tommi] And all my friends are gay, and none of the ones close enough to me have done the kid thing.
[16:35] [Darkhawk] ah yes.
[16:35] [der_Tommi] Well, not all of them, obviously. There's you and people in Finland, and now even some roleplayers here.
[16:36] [Darkhawk] Hey, I don't have any kids! ;) But yeah, 1 out of our channel does.
[16:36] [der_Tommi] I don't think I've properly known any kids, apart from 2 kids I GMd for a while for, in the last 15 years.
[16:37] [der_Tommi] I meant you're not gay. Or if you are, you are extra closeted, with your multiple girlfriends.
[16:37] [Darkhawk] 'lucky you'.. I'm thinking, but hey, not everyone thinks like that ;) So those suggestons as a way in to get to know some kids might work for you, if you study what's possible and what areas you'd like.
[16:38] [Darkhawk] It's just because I'm so scared of jumping out of the closet. I really try to convince myself I'm hetero.
[16:38] [Darkhawk] overdoing it and all.
[16:39] [Darkhawk] In Denark, most people who do stuff with children, do it with these community sports things. Being trainers and organizers for football, handball, etc.
[16:39] [Darkhawk] Not all are pedophiles, I hear.
[16:40] [Darkhawk] But computer interests/nerd stuff might be more aligning with your interests of course.
[16:40] [der_Tommi] I often seem some kids in my yard kicking the ball around, and I want to stay and chat with them, but that would be totally pedo.
[16:40] [Darkhawk] hehe
[16:40] [der_Tommi] Yeah, hard to imagine myself as a sport trainer.
[16:40] [Darkhawk] It would be totally WEIRD these days at least. Talking to others...
[16:42] [Darkhawk] The only adults I thought were acceptable as a kid, where those that were genuinely interested in the same stuff I was. Not faking/pretending just to be with kids, but those were our interests naturally merged and we shared that experience and it wasn't about them or me. Lots of nerdstuff there. gaming, computer art, the scene, comics, boardgames and so on.
[16:42] [der_Tommi] Why couldn't I have a bunch of super-fertile sisters like science promised me?
[16:42] [Darkhawk] or live-action RP, lots of adults organizing that for kids.
[16:42] [Darkhawk] I.. dunno?
[16:43] [der_Tommi] Yeah, nobody has these answers.
[16:43] [Darkhawk] Bitterness ;)
[16:44] [der_Tommi] We even had a girl's name for the third kid ready but apparently magic was no help either.
[16:45] [der_Tommi] Running more RP for kids could be fun. Of course, that's language-based and I've only recently started with adults here. (Which is going great, by the way.)
[16:47] [Darkhawk] live action RP is not that heavy on 'speaking' neccessarily, for adutls, it can be logistics, making food, guarding the kids, chores, etc in the camp, while others RP or control the RP flow. Well, just to start out. But yeah, of course your German will improve and open up options.
[16:49] [Darkhawk] also, I'm not sure any of this will satisfy that 'longing' you describe, but maybe. And in general I think it's best to be honest as to why you do what you do. But being honest in this case, would make you sound rather weird to others ;) So yeah.
[16:50] [der_Tommi] Yeah, that's a worry with all this.
[16:50] [Darkhawk] As a kid, I'd think a person who wanted to be with me, because they liked kids/wanted kids on their own, would be totally obnoxious being around, but that's probably just me. Worked way better when it was just natural interests you shared.
[16:54] [der_Tommi] I doubt that's just you.
[16:56] [Darkhawk] Possibly
[16:57] [Darkhawk] So RP or coding maybe :)
[16:58] [der_Tommi] Well, even with RP and coding, it still won't be "natural" or the only reason. Because I can do those fine alone/with adults.
[16:59] [der_Tommi] And I certainly don't want to enroll in something like this and try to hide why I'm doing it. That'd put me square in the "paedo" box if they ever suspect that.
[17:02] [Darkhawk] I guess if you like both children (not in that way! Mwahaha) and e.g. coding, it's fair to combine and could feel natural anyway. It's mostly when you don't have any interest in the kid's interest, that it gets obnoxious. But 60/40 would probably be fine.
[17:02] [Darkhawk] As a kid, I'd rather cut you out of the equation and be with likeminded kids then, probably, if I had access to them, but that's variable.
[17:10] [Darkhawk] and adults are never on-level with the kids anyway, but as a trainer/organizer who also participates in their stuff, lots of stuff is possible and natural.
[17:11] [der_Tommi] There also seems to be these "Patenschaften". Sounds kind of scary, though. :)
[17:13] [Darkhawk] Pft, just as all hairdressers aren't gay, all of those are maaaybe not pedo ;)
[17:13] [Darkhawk] Maybe it's only 96%
[17:14] [der_Tommi] I actually meant it sounds scary to be paired so tightly with a possibly traumatized kid, but I guess there's also the worry of being discriminated against for not being pedo like the rest.
[17:14] [Darkhawk] but yeah, that's big in German or was, I think, Patenshaften.
[17:15] [der_Tommi] Especially scary with someone with zero experience with children, such as me.
[17:15] [Darkhawk] In Denmark we have.. hrm, something a little less involved, but similar. Not many do it though.
[17:16] [Darkhawk] Yes, you should probably start out with something where it's not all on you.
[17:16] [der_Tommi] Yeah..
[17:22] [der_Tommi] There does seem to be something called "CoderDojo" here, and it looks fairly active..
[17:23] [Darkhawk] There you go. My counseling rates are 100 euros an hour.
[17:24] [der_Tommi] OK, thanks Darkhawk, you're awesome! (I'm paying in rep.)
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[17:26] [Darkhawk] hrmf
[17:27] [der_Tommi] I did enjoy teaching at the university...
[17:30] [Darkhawk] Also, it's 100 euro per hour started.
[17:30] [Darkhawk] So 200 I think.
[17:30] [Darkhawk] Yes, just about actually. yay. Now I can buy food today. You can just wire me the money.
[17:30] [der_Tommi] Gah, that's a lot of rep... Everyone, please don't forget how awesome Darkhawk is!!! Always ask him for advice!
[17:31] [Darkhawk] Pft, doesn't make me any less hungry. I'll just go make food now ;)
[17:31] [der_Tommi] Darkhawk is also great dinner company! I know because I ate dinner with him in 2013 and it was awesome!
[17:32] [Darkhawk] I want money, not rep, dammit!
[17:32] [der_Tommi] Sorry, this is the new economy.
[17:32] [Darkhawk] The new economy sucks
[17:34] [Tarragon] Well, story time: my uncle had kids really late: he was 42 or something. But for most of his 20's and 30's, he did colunteer work with kids as a football coach (and no one ever thought he was creepy, or they never said anything anyway).
[17:34] [Tarragon] volunteer*
[17:34] [der_Tommi] Was this before or after the start of the pedo panic era?
[17:35] [Tarragon] Before and after?
[17:35] [der_Tommi] (How old is your uncle now?)
[17:36] [Tarragon] Hmm, my mom is 63 or something and he's like 1-2 years younger.
[17:37] [Tarragon] He was also single all that time right up to 1-2 years before he had his first kid.
[17:37] [der_Tommi] OK, true, 20-30 years ago was definitely already affected.
[17:37] [Darkhawk] in Denmark, no one thinks 'pedo' when looking at a footbal coach either, it's very normal in sports.
[17:37] [Tarragon] He was also something of a social coach unofficially in his neighbourhood.
[17:38] [der_Tommi] Sure, I'm exaggerating a little there. I'm sure these CodeDomo people are not pedos either.
[17:38] [Tarragon] So single dude heavily involved in various kids' lives. Also somewhat autistic so... could have easily given off massive creep vibes.
[17:40] [der_Tommi] Social coach as in someone the kids would talk to?
[17:40] [Tarragon] Yeah.
[17:41] [Tarragon] But he did anyway and it was all fine.
[17:42] [Tarragon] And I'm mostly avoiding dreamfall because of the lack of April Ryan and also I really didn't like Zoe.
[17:47] [der_Tommi] I'm still enjoying DA:O. The only real complaint is that sometimes it throws a hidden or sudden choice at me when I'm not expecting one.
[17:47] [Tarragon] That might arguably be a good thing.
[17:47] [der_Tommi] Like I'm still not 100% sure if I could have saved that one person by clicking on a health potion during the 10s it gave me.
[17:48] [der_Tommi] It'd be good if it were consistent. (Though I guess it still might be over the course of the game - I'm still at the beginning, level 8.)
[17:49] [der_Tommi] And one time I suddenly was faced with the dialogue wheel. Yeah, I wished I had listened to the background chatter more intently to know what I was actually making a decision about..
[17:50] [Tarragon] I actually loved that, that sometimes in random banter you were unexpectedly included, and that they're not just going to stand around for 10 minutes waiting for you to say something. Either you join in or the conversation moves on.
[17:51] [der_Tommi] That's fine if it's banter. But this was a situation where one choice led to an NPC turning on me (and an unkillable one too).
[17:52] [Tarragon] Also fine by me :D
[17:52] [der_Tommi] Oh, by the way, any of the DLC any good? Apart from the mysterious mirror of shaving and haircuts, of course.
[17:52] [Tarragon] The dwarf one was nice, but I really loved the Avvar DLC.
[17:53] [der_Tommi] OK.
[17:53] [Tarragon] I mean, technically I am rather enthusiastic about the dwarf DLC storyline, but the gameplay was just not my favourite (dungeon crawling).
[17:53] [der_Tommi] And one of them is adverticed as giving your an... epic conclusion? Isn't that supposed to be in the game to begin with?
[17:54] [Tarragon] Oh yeah, Trespasser, that's amazing.
[17:54] [Tarragon] And I'm of the opinion that that stuff should never be DLC, but there you have it. An ending like that should just be part of the game, not added later.
[17:55] [Tarragon] I actually forgot it was DLC.
[17:55] [der_Tommi] But the game itself has... some sort of an ending too?
[17:55] [Tarragon] Yes.
[17:55] [Tarragon] And either one is the kind of ending where you wonder about the next game, but Trespasser is both more conclusive and sets up for the next parts of the storyline better.
[17:56] [der_Tommi] So can I just finish it first and then buy Trespasser? Or are they mutually exclusive?
[17:57] [Tarragon] Trespasser adds on to the end of your game, so once you finish you can just move on to Trespasser.
[17:57] [der_Tommi] OK, great. But the other two I'll have to get some time inbetween?
[17:57] [Tarragon] Yes, once you activate Trespasser in your game, that's it for all other quests etc that are still open.
[17:58] [der_Tommi] OK.
[17:59] [Tarragon] They give warning about that though.
[18:12] [Darkhawk] Trespasser is the real ending of DA:O. I wouldn't want to play the game without. I don't actually like the game that much without it. I did all the DLC, but most is just busy work and empty calories, imo. Can be fine if you like the running around, killing things, seeing stuff interspersed with dialogue in general. But if you're tight on time or patience, the main story and trespasser is also enough. IMO of course.
[18:13] [Darkhawk] And I'd still play with all DLC's, just to have a bigger world to run around it, but I wish they'd made them matter more.
[18:14] [der_Tommi] OK. So far I'm enjoying the running around and killing things, because I gave up on the tactical aspect of it for the most part (yet I still seem to be able to win on the "hard" difficulty with little trouble, at least around level 8).
[18:14] [Darkhawk] I don't tink the game is in any way made to be tactical, it's made to run around killing things realtime ;)
[18:14] [Tarragon] I think the dwarf DLC might matter a lot in later games.
[18:15] [Darkhawk] Somehow I can't remember the dwarf dlc
[18:15] [Darkhawk] Well, can't remember anything ;)
[18:15] [der_Tommi] Well, I do still do pause-action a la Mass Effect, so I guess that's why I'm winning so easily.
[18:16] [Darkhawk] Ah right, The Descent. Now I remember
[18:16] [Darkhawk] Yeah, that was better than the rest
[18:16] [der_Tommi] (I do have another complaint, actually: For some reason, unless I run the game right after starting Windows, my cursor becomes super tiny.)
[18:16] [Tarragon] Never seen that before ,or heard of it.
[18:20] [der_Tommi] An... English voice-over pack?
[18:22] [der_Tommi] And the Avvar pack: You just liked the cosmetic additions or am I missing something?
[18:22] [Tarragon] The english voice over pack I'm guessing is for people whose games are not already in English :D
[18:22] [Tarragon] And I think the Avvar pack must be included already in the Jaws of Hakkon dlc.
[18:23] [Tarragon] Which is the name of the Avvar DLC I like.
[18:23] [der_Tommi] OK, so the Jaws of Hakkon is actually what you recommended?
[18:23] [der_Tommi] OK.
[21:52] [Tarragon] Bed now, night everyone.
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