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[00:01] [der_Tommi] There's also something about fighting through extreme circumstances as a unit where everyone knows their role and can rely on each other. Works in other genres as well, but it's by far most commonly seen in the military genre.
[00:01] [Darkhawk] that's nice in many ways yes, but you get the same feeling in an activist group doing dangerous work. Or, well, I think, since I've done one and not the other, but think it's related.
[00:02] [der_Tommi] I haven't done either.
[00:02] [Darkhawk] the bonding/merging under pressure, the danger that draws out your qualities or lack of them.
[00:02] [Darkhawk] I'd rather have that without the fascist tho ;)
[00:03] [der_Tommi] And I also haven't seen many games about activism..
[00:03] [Darkhawk] true, you don't kill that many, which makes it sucky for gaming ;)
[00:04] [der_Tommi] Indeed. Fascism is much better for gaming.
[00:05] [Darkhawk] yes, that might be a little worrying
[00:08] [der_Tommi] But still, no thanks on non-RP MMO.
[00:08] [Darkhawk] yup
[01:33] [Darkhawk] oh nice, found Age of Decadence on the daaark webz. Now I can test out whether that's actually a good RPG or not.
[01:33] [Wheri] I've heard good things.
[01:34] [Darkhawk] Yes, I guess it could be a divisive game to rate though. We'll see :)
[01:35] [Wheri] True. You know, I have it, so may as well give it a go as well.
[01:36] [Darkhawk] It's rare to meet someone who has the life and opportunity to game as much as I, but you do keep up well ;)
[01:36] [Wheri] *lack of
[01:36] [Darkhawk] being diplomatic here!
[01:37] [Darkhawk] But I do generally hope people play games because they actually like that, and prefer it over other things they could be doing.
[01:37] [Wheri] I'll probably end up abandoning it a few hours in, but deep enough to get a solid impression! Okay, installing!
[01:37] [Darkhawk] Right, I'll give it a few hours spin tonight, but I don't usually quit before I'm through, unless it's really not making a good first impression
[01:38] [Wheri] I don't really do well with longer games that I can actually finish. Even ones I do like, like the new Doom and XComs.
[01:38] [Darkhawk] btw, was it the gog version 1.5.something.70 you have? You have it original so you know if that's the newest? They kept having these huge changelists, so I think the last version really is the best one to test.
[01:38] [Wheri] I have it on Steam.
[01:39] [Darkhawk] Right, they use a different version system
[01:39] [Wheri] Moving over to Gog where I can, but this one's from before.
[01:39] [Darkhawk] I 'have' a GOG version, that might be the latest, but hard to know, as you can't see the version numbers on GOG without actually.. Uh, owning the game.
[01:39] [Darkhawk] Or at least I can't find it if they list it
[01:40] [Wheri] I'll tell you what it shows in-game.
[01:40] [Darkhawk] Great, thanks.
[01:40] [Darkhawk] This one was torrented 6 months ago, so it could be the newest.
[01:40] [Wheri] Yeah, I think that's after the spinoff came out, so they were probably done with it by then.
[01:41] [Darkhawk] yes, the last Steam patch came 6 months ago
[01:41] [Wheri] And it does say "the final update".
[01:42] [Darkhawk] Yup, just don't know if this torrent version is that version just because it has the same age.
[01:43] [Wheri] True.
[01:47] [Darkhawk] Wonder if I have to read the manual and spend hours on understanding the char creation system. The answer is most likely 'yes'.
[01:47] [Wheri] Is that bad?
[01:47] [Darkhawk] no, it's great. But might require a different mind set than 'hey, I could quickly check if this game was fun'.
[01:49] [Wheri] Okay. I think I've heard it's another developer trying to grab Fallout's tail, so that may well be the case.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] But there's no manual, so that makes it easier, I see
[01:50] [Wheri] Build version:
[01:50] [Darkhawk] Yes, I've followed that gamedesigner for many years now. His name is Vault Dweller on forums, Vince D., so yeah he really likes the old Fallouts. Which makes him and his design philosophy a great friend of mine. Question is just if their aspirations matched their abilities.
[01:50] [Darkhawk] Ah crap
[01:51] [Darkhawk] And Torque, right. OMG, that's a horrible and old engine.
[01:52] [Wheri] Okay, yep. Definitely Fallout vibes in chargen.
[01:53] [Wheri] Shame we aren't really getting many games in that vein anymore. I don't usually like RPGs, but Fallout is close to perfect. And a lot of devs seem to be trying to ape it rather than deconstruct and rebuild.
[01:53] [Darkhawk] I like the intro warning, really :)
[01:54] [Darkhawk] 'The game isn't linear, and it's not about killing people'
[01:55] [Wheri] Yeah. Those are fun. I saw one in Bastard Bonds last. "You stand accused of a crime! What is it? And how do you plead? Oh btw you can lie"
[02:22] [Darkhawk] Hrm, does seem quite promising actually.
[02:23] [Darkhawk] Did you play Dead State btw? Some of the same people worked on both AoD and Dead State, same design philosophies as well, though not the same writers.
[02:23] [Darkhawk] I liked Dead State too.
[02:23] [Wheri] No, I'm not sure what that is.
[02:23] [Darkhawk] But, if this game seems promising, I have to buy it for the latest build, and it's still not bargainprice. Hrmph.
[02:23] [Darkhawk] Zombie apocalypse turn based with base building and RP
[02:24] [Wheri] Sounds interesting! Thanks for the suggestion!
[02:24] [Darkhawk] The Reanimated version is the newest and best :)
[02:25] [Wheri] Yeah. I see it on gog, and a demo on Steam. Will maybe eventually pick it up.
[02:25] [Darkhawk] Probably has lots more combat than AoD though, and less people to interact with, because hey. They're dead ;) Still, it's neat for what it does, and the lead writer and designer was the one doing the Vampire Bloodlines game, so I like him.
[02:27] [Wheri] That may work out better for me. As I said, I can't really get into longer RPGs, but strategy games like XCom are really really my thing. I mean, I still drop them halfway through, but then I come back, and if the game is sufficiently readable, I can continue from where I Left off.
[02:33] [Darkhawk] Yeah, might actually be better then.
[03:14] [Darkhawk] ok, seems very promising, although in this version I have, there seems to be quite some railroading going on in the intro vignette after selecting the first possible answers in a dialogue tree. You can't change or nuance the direction of what you said from there. I heard they added more depth in later versions though.
[03:15] [Darkhawk] So I guess I'll stop playing and wait until it hits the bargain bin a bit more on GOG.
[03:15] [Wheri] That's interesting. You don't see that kind of expansion often.
[03:16] [Darkhawk] that was their biggest focus for the entire game to start with. Like Fallout.
[03:16] [Darkhawk] So a bit surprised by the initial railroading. Maybe only initial. But seems like the first direction in any dialogue sticks and plays out.
[03:17] [Darkhawk] Maybe just something to get used to, the way they do it. Can accept that, if that's how it is, as long as I have options to pick what my char would.
[03:18] [Wheri] Yeah. And so long as I can't make a peaceful character, only to get stonewalled by forced combat encounters.
[03:20] [Darkhawk] 'peaceful' I think even without personally fighting in this game, most chars in this game can get quite harmful to be around, or so it seems judging by the tone ;)
[03:20] [Darkhawk] Dunno if you can avoid any combat in AoD tho.
[03:20] [Darkhawk] Sometimes that's not realistic either, depending on the situations you risk getting into.
[03:20] [Wheri] Not necessarily avoid any combat. Just not making a character that cannot get to an ending.
[03:21] [Darkhawk] Maybe as a merchant staying in the right places all the time, if the game allowed for that. Would be interesting.
[03:22] [Wheri] I think technically you could beat Fallout without making an attack through talking and sneaking around things? Although there are sections clarly meant to invoke a classic dungeon crawl. V15, for instance.
[03:23] [Darkhawk] Yes, in FO1 you could. In FO2 you semi could, if you hacked some turrets and made them do the killing for you, as I recall.
[03:23] [Darkhawk] That was great, especially because the game didn't feel shorter because of it. It was just a viable option, that was well-implemented.
[03:23] [Wheri] Not so sure. I made it to the very end in FO2, but couldn't beat it. I think I did hack the turrets, and it wasn't enough?
[03:24] [Darkhawk] Not as viable as it would be realistically, where you don't have save/load and where you don't evolve into some ueber human killing machine, but still, you could pretend you were being realistic and careful.
[03:25] [Darkhawk] Hrm, I remember doing something that was over the top enough, without any fighting on my part. Might have needed to do something extra, but the 'bad guy' was totally annihilated ;)
[03:25] [Wheri] I think there were three things you could do, and I only found/used one?
[03:26] [Darkhawk] maybe a turret got critical hit lucky.
[03:26] [Darkhawk] I've replayed it once or twice, but the last time is more than 10 years ago, so i don't remember...
[03:26] [Wheri] Doesn
[03:26] [Wheri] Doesn't matter, anyway. I don't think I can muster up enough patience to replay it now. Besides, I definitely like the original better, for the most part.
[03:28] [Darkhawk] I love both, really. After that.. Urgh, a travesty calling FE3 and onwards Fallout.
[03:28] [Darkhawk] FO.
[03:29] [Wheri] Isn't New Vegas good?
[03:29] [Wheri] But yeah, I at least acknowledge the second one.
[03:29] [Darkhawk] Judged on its own, not comparing to the real Fallouts, maybe. But actually then I did like Fallout 3 better. I'm not too keen on Obsidian actually. But yeah, everyone says it's great.
[03:30] [Wheri] Oh right. I think we've talked about this.
[03:32] [Darkhawk] might be, it's certainly something I could rant about ;)
[03:32] [Darkhawk] How about Mount and Blade, you played that?
[03:33] [Wheri] No. I kind of know what it is, and pretty sure I have the game from some bundle or another, but that's the extent of it.
[03:34] [Darkhawk] Well, depending on taste of course, but that's one super great game if you like that sort of thing.
[03:34] [Darkhawk] Maybe the sequel will even get out, eventually.
[03:35] [Darkhawk] Many versions of the base games, and also user made mods though, so if you check it, get the best/most complete one. It's a great sandboxy game with empire/army building, sieging, RP mechanics, and so on.
[03:36] [Wheri] It seemed sort of pointless; I don't like single-player sandboxes.
[03:36] [Darkhawk] Open ended, so that's not to everyone's liking. And not much direction given, so you have to explore and set goals yourself.
[03:36] [Darkhawk] Yeah, might not be for you then.
[03:36] [Wheri] I like Kerbals, though. That's my exception.
[03:36] [Darkhawk] hehe, that's also very specific
[03:37] [Wheri] Yep. And if there's a mod that adds realism, it's probably on my list, too.
[03:38] [Darkhawk] realism comes in many shapes. Could probably only launch one rocket every second year then, and you wouldn't be allowed to just try out things with no regard for safety ;)
[03:38] [Wheri] There is actually one where vehicles take time to build. But you're right, I exaggerated a little.
[03:39] [Darkhawk] How about Aven Colony, did you try that? I have it on my 2play list
[03:40] [Wheri] I've watched a bit; apparently it's not very good. Only lasts about 8 hours.
[03:40] [Darkhawk] hrm
[03:40] [Wheri] Does look very promising and of course, the theme. Still, as city builders go, can't beat Pharaoh and Tropico.
[03:40] [Darkhawk] And RimWorld?
[03:41] [Darkhawk] Heh, yeah, I remember Pharaoh. And Olympus and Caesar. Then I got pretty drained playing city builders.
[03:41] [Wheri] Pretty great; but I'd probably prefer Dwarf Fortress, if it didn't consistently refuse to work.
[03:41] [Darkhawk] or maybe just the same city builder in the same engine with different skins ;)
[03:42] [Darkhawk] Yes, DF is also my favourite of course. It's way above comparison with anything else though, so it's fair not to judge by its lofty standard.
[03:42] [Wheri] You haven't lost much. There wasn't much improvement past the first Tropico.
[03:42] [Darkhawk] Also, it's so unfinished and I do like playing with at least a tileset...
[03:43] [Wheri] I used a simplistic tileset that basically brings a nicer font and replaces some creatures with heads. Goblins, for instance. Taffer, I think it's called.
[03:44] [Darkhawk] But I had my eyes on Rimworld because it might get 'finished' faster, and it has ok graphics. Not that I don't adore ANSI, I really do... But it's also nice with an UI that doesn't take a ph.d to figure out.
[03:44] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I used MayGreen or some such
[03:44] [Darkhawk] discontinued I think.
[03:45] [Wheri] Rimworld is good. Just feels very small in comparison, even with the ability to roam the planet.
[03:45] [Darkhawk] yes. But it's really unfair to compare anything to DF
[03:45] [Darkhawk] Like comparing fantasy to Tolkien in my book ;)
[03:46] [Wheri] Also, I've been spoiled by DF's 3D.
[03:46] [Darkhawk] Ah yes. So Rimworld is only one plane?
[03:47] [Wheri] Yes. Completely flat.
[03:47] [Darkhawk] That does make it much smaller and closes off really fun stuff. But ok.
[03:47] [Darkhawk] I really crave games like that, but they also have a tendency to not get past a certain development stage
[03:48] [Darkhawk] Hrm, crazy good reviews on Steam for Rimworld. Actually never seen a higher score.
[03:48] [Wheri] No fluids, either, last time I checked. It does simulate temperature, so you can try building around a thermal vent in a glacier.
[03:48] [Wheri] Have a look at Oxygen Not Included. Roughly the same genre, but Klei; that team is awesome.
[03:55] [Darkhawk] ok, looks good, and nice art style
[03:55] [Darkhawk] also looks smallish, but ok
[03:55] [Darkhawk] Can't be DF!
[05:21] [Darkhawk] well, off for now
[05:21] Darkhawk ( left irc: Quit: Darkhawk
[11:25] Cyrilion ( joined #seed.
[11:26] [Cyrilion] Morning
[12:03] Darkhawk ( joined #seed.
[12:03] [Darkhawk] heya
[12:04] [Cyrilion] Hey Darkhawk
[14:46] [Darkhawk] Played the new 1.8 version of Stellaris with DLC Cyrilion?
[14:50] [Cyrilion] Ermm no. Still not done with my first game
[14:51] [Darkhawk] Heheh, that's kinda funny ;)
[14:51] [Darkhawk] Well, many years of content then!
[14:51] [Cyrilion] Managed to break that deadlock after 200+ years of war. Then felt kind of lost as to what my next goal should be. Then someone wanted me to play MMOs
[14:52] [Cyrilion] So.. yeah
[14:52] [Darkhawk] I won't take the blame there, for once
[14:52] [Cyrilion] Hehe, no. Not blaming. Just that it took my focus from Stellaris
[14:53] [Darkhawk] In Stellaris, I find it's best to set your final goal to 'survive endgame crisis', and until then have smaller, natural goals, with 'survive and prosper' being behind it all.
[14:54] [Cyrilion] I wouldn't mind actually hitting one of the victory achievements
[14:54] [Darkhawk] Sometimes, when Fallen Empires or Awakened Fallen Empires come after the endgame crisis and are bigger threats, then it's also interesting to win/find equilibrium with them as well. But beyond that.. Conquering everything is a needless slog at least.
[14:54] [Cyrilion] There's also the option of finally getting that federation going
[14:55] [Cyrilion] I'm a pacifist race, dammit
[14:55] [Darkhawk] Hrm, they're kinda flat imo, since at some point you're guaranteed to hit them, it just takes time and no more effort, which is grindy for no real pay off. But yeah, for your first game, makes sense to try.
[14:55] [Darkhawk] Better hope your federation isn't then, if you want to hit a victory goal ;)
[14:56] [Darkhawk] Yeah, and being pacifist works fine with the goal of 'survive endgame crisis/FE'
[14:56] [Cyrilion] I can initiate liberation wars. Other than that, the endgame crisis (assuming the whatever scourge counts for that) is still ongoing
[14:57] [Darkhawk] yup
[14:57] [Cyrilion] Might eventually end up winning me the game
[14:57] [Darkhawk] Yeah, you can initiate liberation wars, and then afterwards snatch them up 'for their own good'. Very pacifistic
[14:57] [Cyrilion] Not quite doing that.
[14:58] [Cyrilion] Sitting by while the scourge makes everything barren seems to work
[14:58] [Cyrilion] On the other side of the galaxy
[14:59] [Darkhawk] It's too bad the vassal system is underpowered and a bad idea in regards to efficiency, I'd really like to see that area improved, so it actually makes sense playing as a cruel fascist empire with lots of slave vassals... And it actually being as efficient as integrating conquered system yourself.
[14:59] [Darkhawk] So long as they get defeated before reaching you ;)
[15:01] [Cyrilion] Been in clinch with them before. Not too worried
[15:01] [Darkhawk] 'woooh'
[15:01] [Cyrilion] Hah
[15:02] [Cyrilion] They've been around for 150 years. And they don't seem to be developing anything on their own as far as I can tell
[15:02] [Cyrilion] They're becoming obsolete
[15:02] [Darkhawk] poor scourges
[15:03] [Darkhawk] And right, you've actually played a long time. My games tend to have ended by 200-250 years played. Ended as in, whole galaxy conquered. So usually I stop after 150-200 when the endgame crisis is defeated.
[15:03] [Darkhawk] But of course one can lean back and enjoy the universe without rushing!
[15:37] [Darkhawk] Hrm, that wasn't meant as a barb btw - really! But anyway, looking at LoTRO.. Remind me Cyrilion, what's the best way to get the content I haven't? If I am a sub, I get temporary access to the questpacks I missed (anorien and pelargir I think), if I buy with evil turbine points I get it unlocked for ever. But, should I wait until there's a deal/sale since I don't need it now? Will it be included in the Mordor expansion, etc? Nee
[15:37] [Darkhawk] d around 4000 turbine points otherwise, and that's a lot of money.
[15:37] [Darkhawk] Also.. They changed the character selection music. Now the game sucks... Luckily I have the soundtrack.
[15:53] [Cyrilion] Losing touch with that part myself, I must admit. Apparently it's been a while since expansions were on sale, so.. whether that's because SSG has dropped that or simply waiting till they release the Mordor expansion for TP purchase will be a guess
[16:00] [Cyrilion] I don't suppose you have a huge stash of those evil TP?
[16:00] [Cyrilion] Which are called Lotro points now, by the way
[16:16] [Darkhawk] 370...
[16:21] [Cyrilion] Yeah.. ok
[17:08] [Darkhawk] Should have become a lifetimer like you and Dustman, back in 2007
[17:29] [Cyrilion] Yeah. That's one purchase I haven't regretted
[17:30] [Wheri] I'm guessing not my thing at all? Quests and instances?
[17:30] [Cyrilion] Yeah
[17:30] [Wheri] Shame.
[17:33] Tarragon ( joined #seed.
[17:33] [Tarragon] Hello
[17:39] [Darkhawk] Hey Tarra
[17:52] [Cyrilion] Hey Tarra
[20:59] [der_Tommi] Speaking of things that happen among the stars, did any of you see the new Star Trek pilot?
[20:59] [Wheri] I did.
[21:06] [der_Tommi] It's fun watching the Anti-SJWs' totally predictable reactions.
[21:06] [Wheri] Nope. Not touching that.
[22:51] [Wheri] Alright. Starting up Age of Decadence, let's see how close it is to Fallout's tail!
[22:54] [Tarragon] For a film or a series?
[22:59] Cyrilion ( left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:04] [Wheri] Alright. Looks like the 40 HP you start with are not going to change. If ever I saw a way to set the scale of the game, this is it.
[23:11] [Wheri] Oh, by the way, Darkhawk? Have you seen Underrail? It's another Fallout-chaser, with a fair amount of Metro 2033 thrown in.
[23:15] [Wheri] I like this bit: originally, there have been eleventy billion types of ammunition. We may have overcomplicated it, so now there's universal ammo. Enjoy!
[23:31] [Wheri] Steppe nomads?! Do I hear some post-apoc cossacks?!
[23:42] [Wheri] Also, no voice acting by the look of it. Good. I approve.


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