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[00:00] [Tarragon] I like the theory of them in any case.
[00:00] [Tarragon] So far been disappointed with the practical side.
[00:00] [Darkhawk] There's Conan at least. Maybe that's something.
[00:00] [Tarragon] No, the keybindings, remember?
[00:01] [Darkhawk] But it'd take divine intervention at this point to get me interested in MMO-RPing again.
[00:01] [Darkhawk] I.. obviously don't
[00:01] [Wheri] Pretty much my view, exactly. They seem to be pretty much inheriting the sandbox MMOG niche. Not very well, but it's better than nothing.
[00:01] [Darkhawk] divine intervention, or just good, intense, meaningful RP ;)
[00:01] [Darkhawk] the former is more likely
[00:01] [Wheri] Yeah, Conan is the only one that is at least trying to stick with a theme.
[00:02] [Tarragon] Should check out online multiplayer games/servers of more RPgish games too, not just MMOs
[00:02] [Tarragon] RPGish*
[00:02] [Darkhawk] ... MUD's are the best
[00:02] [Tarragon] People still opposed to WoW?
[00:02] [Darkhawk] because, player driven change is actually possible. And I need that for RP.
[00:02] [Darkhawk] Hell, I dunno..
[00:03] [Wheri] The themeparkest of themeparks?
[00:03] [Darkhawk] I never gave WoW a change maybe, but thought the first 30 minutes as a dwarf was very uninteresting ;)
[00:03] [Darkhawk] chance!
[00:03] [Tarragon] No more of a themepark than FFXIV surely.
[00:04] [Wheri] I tried it way back when, the vanilla content. I don't think there was anything I actually liked in the game.
[00:04] [Darkhawk] or most other MMO's
[00:04] [Tarragon] Considering the first 30 mins take place in a noobie area, yeah, it's uninteresting.
[00:04] [Tarragon] Also nightevlves ftw
[00:04] [Tarragon] elves*
[00:05] [Tarragon] I like that they have chairs you can sit on, clothes that are just clothes, and objects your char can actually hold that serve no purpose, and areas that serve no purpose ie they're not filled with mobs.
[00:06] [Tarragon] Also that I explored the world on a mount at level 20 and could get to scholomance. People were gobsmacked. I was pleased.
[00:06] [Darkhawk] This reminds me that we actuially want a lot of different things from MMO's, so it's hard to get going. Although we probably agree on most MMO's being rubbish, which isn't helping ;)
[00:07] [Wheri] Exactly!
[00:07] [Tarragon] So yeah. Exploration through areas that are open and not mob-riddled and far below the official level of them. And one time, I swam around one of the huge continents just because YOU CAN.
[00:08] [Tarragon] It took me 4 days.
[00:08] [Wheri] I dunno. There's Albion now, which I may be interested in trying. But I hear it's mediocre even with no serious competitors around. And it's $35 with no trial options, so mh.
[00:08] [Tarragon] And there are actually some mobs at some points! For no reason! Like they wondered if anyone would ever be absurd enough to actually swim around a continent.
[00:08] [Darkhawk] Personally I really liked the way we played FFXIV. Cooperative, but also inidvidual, tight, active group, did the group content together, shared the game. Was fun for me. But ok, then again, I also really liked the crafting ;)
[00:09] [Wheri] I liked the approach, I'll admit. But it got super repeitive, super quickly.
[00:09] [Darkhawk] If you convince everyone else, I'll also give WoW a go with you Tarra, I'm that open!
[00:09] [Tarragon] Meh, only if we don't find anything better.
[00:09] [Tarragon] It has its upsides, sure, but still.
[00:10] [Darkhawk] Well, what we did in FFXIV is nothing unique to that game. Only thing about FFXIV there is that they only needed what, 4 people for a dungeon.
[00:10] [Darkhawk] Games that require less would be better for our initial size.
[00:10] [Tarragon] Huge community including RPers that never stop *is* an upside even in a game where RP has no influence on the world.
[00:10] [Darkhawk] But I guess others would like more active players.
[00:11] [Tarragon] Well, you do have SW:TOR where you can basically solo the whole damn game skipping a few dungeons.
[00:11] [Tarragon] But that's more like an RPG where other people happen to walk around too.
[00:12] [Wheri] Or GW2, where everything is optional.
[00:12] [Darkhawk] Yep. I like SW:ToR for what it is. Have almost done all stories, and have one character past the expansions.
[00:12] [Wheri] TOR and TSW should've been regular RPGs with optional multiplayer.
[00:12] [Darkhawk] It gets to be too much though, when you kill you 10000th opponent and you're always the chosen one, and so on..
[00:13] [Wheri] But I have to admit, I really dislike this rotation-based combat where you're hammering the same combo over and over again.
[00:13] [Tarragon] I couldn't solo in TSW to save my life. Virtually literally, if you know what I mean.
[00:13] [Darkhawk] I think TSW went MMO grindy around Tokyo and never came back from that, unfortunately. But before that, yeah. Ideal game to play just a few, and play solo for the most part.
[00:13] [Wheri] It was pretty tricky early on, but I've heard they lowered the difficulty.
[00:13] [Darkhawk] They changed the controls and the builds to be easier and less flexible/overwhelming. In TSW. I don't like it, but others might.
[00:13] [Tarragon] Like seriously I looked up a succesful build and copied it and I could. not. solo.
[00:14] [Darkhawk] They also changed the dungeons I think, required size. Ah, and it's free to play now?
[00:14] [Tarragon] By now I have played that starter island first half 4 times, and I'm royally sick of it.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] Went live a month ago. Not sure what I thought about all that 'dumbing down' or how they made the free2play.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] hehe.
[00:15] [Tarragon] I refuse to play that game again if I have to do one more thing solo, a radical change from my normal style I know.
[00:15] [Wheri] Yeah. That drab atmosphere made it really hard to stick with the game.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] I think they completely changed combat and builds in the game, but I must admit, I dunno.
[00:15] [Darkhawk] Haven't checked it since.
[00:16] [Darkhawk] However, I think we have one of our typically rehashed - we could play... no we could play... but we could also play... no - moments ;)
[00:16] [Tarragon] And the mobs there! Talk about swamped.
[00:16] [Wheri] Yeah. I'd actually be interested in the combat if it's more action-based now.
[00:16] [Tarragon] Worse than any other MMO, not one inch of unused land.
[00:17] [Darkhawk] Based on your starting area experience!
[00:17] [Wheri] Any smaller ones that look interesting?
[00:17] [Tarragon] I actually loved FE except for the PvP focus later on.
[00:17] [Darkhawk] But it's not that far off the mark ;)
[00:18] [Tarragon] And well, except for the zombies.
[00:18] [Tarragon] MMOs a bit obsessive with the zombies these days.
[00:19] [Wheri] Are they? I thought zombies were out three years ago.
[00:19] [Tarragon] FE is a bit older than that
[00:20] [Wheri] And they're sort of a staple of post-apoc, aren't they.
[00:20] [Tarragon] Yes, and who knows why.
[00:20] [Darkhawk] yeah, out in 2009, not much added since then, this says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJXFMIyxnk
[00:20] [Wheri] FE may be worth a try, now that I think about it. If it's still around.
[00:20] [Tarragon] I mean, as its own post-apoc genre, as in the cause of the apocalypse, sure.
[00:21] [Tarragon] But why stick them in every other post-apoc game?
[00:21] [Wheri] Come on, Fallout had ghouls!
[00:21] [Tarragon] Don't remind me.
[00:21] [Wheri] But Fallout's good.
[00:21] [Tarragon] Feral fucking ghouls, bane of my fallout life.
[00:21] [Tarragon] I like zombie films, hate them in my gaming.
[00:21] [Darkhawk] Why haven't we played SW:ToR a bit more, btw? I mean, soloing and then just doing the multiplayer stuff together.
[00:22] [Tarragon] I did, with my mom, a few months back.
[00:22] [Darkhawk] Also, last time I checked, your mother had removed my guildmaster privileges ;)
[00:22] [Darkhawk] or whatever those are called
[00:22] [Tarragon] Hehehe
[00:23] [Wheri] I got burnt out when we tried RPing, and really disappointed in everything that wasn't quests.
[00:23] [Wheri] Oh hey, people keep praising Elder Scrolls! Have we tried Elder Scrolls?
[00:23] [Darkhawk] I think I made her head because she was still active many years ago and wanted to do something with the Seeds there. But last I checked, nobody was active in it. I'd like to at least have some control of the 'guild' again, but I guess I forgot to ask.
[00:23] [Darkhawk] Elder Scrolls suxx0rs
[00:23] [Tarragon] We met up in game, turns out we had both made male jedi knights dressed in the exact same outfit dyed in the exact same colour combinations, followed by matching Theron Shans.
[00:24] [Darkhawk] Like mother, like daughter ;)
[00:24] [Tarragon] I have indeed played Elder Scrolls but not beyond noobieville.
[00:24] [Darkhawk] Elder Scrolls is a really annoying MMO. Very soulless imo.. Like it has no particular reason for existing, like the developers were just workers with no passion.
[00:25] [Tarragon] Yes, I think they would have done better just putting Skyrim up online.
[00:25] [Darkhawk] It's not super bad, but that's just even more insulting ;) For me there were no highlights to the game either.
[00:25] [Tarragon] It shows that it was a different developer.
[00:25] [Tarragon] Had none of the ES atmosphere and the gameplay was off too.
[00:26] [Tarragon] And I actually saw less RP opportunity there than in regular thempark MMOS
[00:26] [Darkhawk] I haven't tried GW2, probably because Wheri praised it so much ;)
[00:26] [Tarragon] I always wanted to try GW2 but last time I checked around they had no trial.
[00:26] [Darkhawk] Or more likely because there was no way to trial it, and from what I saw, something must have turned me of.
[00:26] [Darkhawk] f
[00:26] [Tarragon] Yes, paying
[00:27] [Darkhawk] that too, but can't have been the only thing
[00:27] [Tarragon] Sure was for me.
[00:27] [Wheri] GW2 has gone sorta free-to-play some time ago, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:27] [Darkhawk] 'sorta'
[00:27] [Darkhawk] enough to trial?
[00:28] [Wheri] I think so. I don't remember what the limitations were. It may have been that all the pre-expansion content is available.
[00:28] [Darkhawk] https://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/play-for-free
[00:29] [Wheri] But I don't know what the game is like now. I did enjoy it, but more as a free-roaming action RPG with a pretty cute aesthetic and a fine combat system. The RP potential was barely there.
[00:29] [Darkhawk] The more we talk, the more I want to just load up LotRO and go explore again ;)
[00:30] [Darkhawk] wow, that GW2 link is not informative at all
[00:30] [Darkhawk] still don't know what the limitations of playing for free are
[00:30] [Wheri] Around the expansion, it went really hard on "YOUR story... but you get a team of these UNIQUE and INTERESTING characters: LESBIANS! The KID GENIUS with a TERMINAL DISEASE! GRUFF and GRUFFER!"
[00:31] [Wheri] Let's see if I can interpret that.
[00:31] [Tarragon] Who cares about lesbians, where is the guy-on-guy action?
[00:32] [Darkhawk] Ahh . https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/230165307-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT
[00:32] [Wheri] Yeah, I was about to post that link
[00:33] [Wheri] That's a bloody shame, too. There's an asexual race (that looks like hot tree people), and even their two lover characters are girls!
[00:33] [Darkhawk] SO Wheri, can you translate that for us? Is it a mild annoyance only? Can one get a good feel for the game?
[00:33] [Darkhawk] Of course, because guy on guy is more taboo than girls...
[00:33] [Wheri] Okay, let me try.
[00:34] [Tarragon] No, bcause I'm not interested in girls.
[00:34] [Tarragon] Or their assets!
[00:34] [Darkhawk] I like that word in this context ;)
[00:35] [Wheri] Generally mild inconvenience, with the only things that can get in the way being the chat, mail, and guild bank limitations.
[00:35] [Tarragon] I don't want any assets from female chars that I can't loot.
[00:35] [Darkhawk] In game mail, you can't mail items or gold, I guess that's really inconveniencing if you play the game together?
[00:36] [Tarragon] Hell, that's annoying if you play more than 1 char
[00:36] [Darkhawk] And what's the chat limitation if we wanted to play it together?
[00:36] [Darkhawk] That we can't talk only to ourselves before lvl 30?
[00:37] [Tarragon] In WoW I have auction chars, if I couldn't mail myself gold and stuff I'd have to have my main continually break questing and RP and leave hard to reach areas to sell shit.
[00:37] [Wheri] Yes and no. When I played, they didn't even have direct trading - you had to mail things even if you stood next to each other. On the other hand, you hardly need to transfer items.
[00:37] [Tarragon] Or had.
[00:37] [Wheri] Currency and such is account-wide, and there's an account-wide bank for items, so transferring items between characters shouldn't be a problem.
[00:38] [Wheri] Map chat is for shitposting, anyway, so don't worry about it. The whisper thing may be annoying, but so long as you're friends, it shouldn't be a problem.
[00:39] [Wheri] And now that I think about it, squad chat is probably not the same as group chat.
[00:39] [Wheri] Yeah, they're the raid equivalents.
[00:39] [Darkhawk] so, for solo checking out GW2 ity sounds pretty nice. And for checking it out together, it sounds.. surmountable.
[00:40] [Wheri] I'm in if you're in.
[00:40] [Darkhawk] So, what group size for dungeons? And is there an RP server?
[00:40] [Darkhawk] Well, I'd be interested at some point. But hey, FFXIV.. Poor Cyrilion just bought a months play ;)
[00:40] [Wheri] Not an official one, but unless they moved it, Piken Square is the unofficial European roleplaying server. I've seen a fair amount of action, but - Jedi tea parties.
[00:41] [Darkhawk] I'm in for either myself. Or both, one after another.
[00:41] [Wheri] Dungeons are designed for 5-man groups, and they scale to your level. But they should be surmountable with a smaller group, if you're organised enough.
[00:42] [Darkhawk] Ah yes.. Well, I don't want to RP myself probably, but havingg the choice is good and the RP servers in general earlier on, had a more.. mature udience. Generally speaking. So it's always the best server.
[00:42] [Wheri] Scaling is sort of the game's whole deal. It tries really hard to make you never feel overpowered.
[00:42] [Tarragon] Can do FFXIV for a moth too. It's only a month.
[00:42] [Darkhawk] you make it sound like a month of waterboarding ;)
[00:42] [Wheri] Yeah, same reasoning. I go for those, pick a lore-friendly name and come up with a "level 1" backstory, should something come up.
[00:43] [Darkhawk] ok, in any case, it was interesting to know GW2 is free to check out now
[00:43] [Darkhawk] I'm definately up for that at some point, and it'd be fun to check it out together.
[00:44] [Darkhawk] well, with Wheri obviously being the know-it-all WHO DOESN'T SPOIL ANYTHING!
[00:44] [Wheri] And I'll be really glad to show off the Silverwastes and my two TOTALLY HANDSOME CHARACTERS I MEAN COME ON THEY'RE SO COOL!
[00:44] [Tarragon] http://www.mmorpg.com/interviews/citadel-forged-with-fire-interview-blending-mmos-and-open-world-into-one-experience-1000011901
[00:45] [Wheri] Citadel? I think we've stumbled upon that one just lst week.
[00:46] [Wheri] Bloody hell, their background image is Ragnarok. Stop tempting me!
[00:49] [Darkhawk] I'll be the spoilsport and say it sounds pretty cookie-cutter for now.
[00:50] [Tarragon] Sounds like you can run your own server too, or find other people running an RP one.
[00:50] [Darkhawk] And I'm not that interested in dragon fights or how many weapons my archetype can have.
[00:50] [Darkhawk] Yep, that's getting to be a thing, with Conan the most notable so far. With the servers I mean.
[00:50] [Darkhawk] But not too many online on the server I think.
[00:51] [Darkhawk] 64 max?
[00:51] [Darkhawk] Might be interesting, when such a game has a lot of varied content and an immersive world that also impresses without people.
[00:51] [Darkhawk] So it's interesting :)
[00:52] [Tarragon] RPing with 64 people def. be the most I've ever seen at one time in any case.
[00:52] [Tarragon] If you can find an RP server'
[00:52] [Wheri] Worth a look! It's fairly cheap, too, so I may be convinced to run reconnaissance on that.
[00:53] [Darkhawk] Yes, back in the day, there were Neverwinter Nights RP servers, that was actually fun, because there could be GM's and players could affect the world.
[00:53] [Tarragon] Those prolly still run.
[00:53] [Tarragon] NWN looks like crap though
[00:54] [Darkhawk] So there's potential in stuff like that. Especially with lots of GM tools and an environment you can change.
[00:54] [Darkhawk] Hehe yes
[00:54] [Wheri] Building a castle sounds like a decent way to affect the world.
[00:54] [Darkhawk] I forget the name.. But it was rather impressive for its scope
[00:54] [Darkhawk] Sounds rather gamey in itself, that you need a castle to craft and so on. Need more sandbox so that GM's can sculpt lots of stuff for the players.
[00:55] [Darkhawk] Ah, that NWN thing was called A Land far Away.. But it's gone. of course. Like 15 years ago ;)
[00:56] [Darkhawk] ah no, it just changed homepage.. huh
[00:56] [Darkhawk] http://www.alandfaraway.info/
[00:56] [Darkhawk] at least they have text! Yay.
[00:58] [Wheri] Alright. So let me know if/when I should download the GW2 client.
[00:59] [Tarragon] Well, FFXIV first for solidarity?
[00:59] [Darkhawk] I'll be sure to poke you when we get to that :) Now ior in a month or whatever happens. Will also keep you updated on FFXIV.
[00:59] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I think FFXIV, maybe ask Cyrilion about what he thinks.
[01:00] [Tarragon] GW2, Citadel thingy, worth a try anyway?
[01:00] [Wheri] I thought we didn't want to touch Fourteen until we've found an FC we like.
[01:00] [Darkhawk] Well, Cyrilion is goign to look for one
[01:00] [Darkhawk] or was
[01:00] [Tarragon] Not tonight
[01:01] [Darkhawk] And the Citadel thingy.. I'd rather not do early access, because I like to try out more complete games. Well, hehe.. yes I know.. Seed... ;)
[01:01] [Darkhawk] Still wasn't in betatesting for Seed tho!
[01:01] [Wheri] Citadel just hit early access, and it's still 20% off. We probably won't get that much game out of it right now, but as I said, I'm interested enough to run recon.
[01:01] [Darkhawk] or.. not actual, named betatesting...
[01:02] [Darkhawk] Might as well start downloading GW2 so I have it for later.
[01:02] [Tarragon] I was in closed and open beta for Seed.
[01:03] [Darkhawk] Wheri, what's the Heart of Thorns upgrade thing for GW2?
[01:03] [Wheri] An expansion pack.
[01:03] [Darkhawk] yeah, I remember Tarra. And in Ryzom as well. I was betaing EVE and that.. hrm.. sci-fi sandbox with real life money.
[01:04] [Darkhawk] So, there's another expansion pack coming out soon too, right?
[01:04] [Wheri] It's got a new class, another weapon and skillset for each existing class, a few added large areas, and so forth. It's not critical.
[01:04] [Wheri] No idea. It's been over a year since I've last looked at it.
[01:10] [Tarragon] https://mmos.com/review/eternal-lands
[01:15] [Darkhawk] Ew, roleplaying...
[01:16] [Wheri] I also wonder how Wakfu's doing now. They did ruin it at release, but who knows - they may've changed their mind since.
[01:16] [Darkhawk] that was that weird/original martial arts animal thingie?
[01:17] [Wheri] No, it was the French turn-based one with a cartoon.
[01:18] [Darkhawk] huh
[01:19] [Wheri] It played like a regular tile-based isometric MMO while you were travelling or gathering, but when you started a fight - BOOM! Turn-based.
[01:20] [Darkhawk] There's Path of Fire and Heathstone for GW2 expansions it seems. The Trial doesn't get access to neither. What are we missing out on in Path of Fire? Just story progression after a certain level?
[01:20] [Wheri] I've no idea. Those came out after I last played.
[01:21] [Wheri] They promised not to raise the level cap, either. Once you're 80, you're 80.
[01:21] [Darkhawk] huh
[01:22] [Darkhawk] How big is the game, MB wise, aprox?
[01:22] [Darkhawk] I have a download limit per day in effect, or my 4G connection gets throttled ;)
[01:22] [Wheri] 20+ gigs.
[01:22] [Darkhawk] ok, thanks
[01:22] [Wheri] They have this weird client where it's all in like 3 files.
[01:23] [Darkhawk] it says it's streaming
[01:24] [Wheri] Yeah. Right into a data file.
[01:24] [Darkhawk] which would be good, because I have to stop it after 15 GB to not hit my limit.
[01:24] [Wheri] Heh. Path of Fire seems to be the new expansion, with another subclass for each existing class, new areas and the next story chapter...
[01:26] [Darkhawk] How are they handling progression after lvl 80? New game/progression mechanics?
[01:28] [Wheri] You keep gaining skill points, so they can just add more abilities into your class' set. Also, location-based abilities, like flying on a glider or speaking to natives.
[01:29] [Wheri] My data is at least a year out of date, though.
[01:29] [Darkhawk] hrm, I am (was, if they changed it) a great fan of TSW's skill system. But combining skills and levels seems redundant from a gamedesign perspective. Oh well, I like all kinds of messy mechanics as well.
[01:30] [Wheri] I agree. GW2 could've tossed the levels easily enough, but I guess they're "approachable" and "easy to explain".
[01:31] [Darkhawk] it's what people are used to, yeah
[01:33] [Wheri] Not that those are bad things, but I'm going to snark.
[01:35] [Wheri] When you start playing, I don't think there's a random name option in-game, but there is a decent generator online. And the themes for each race are pretty obvious.
[01:36] [Darkhawk] I've NEVER used a random name generator.. Thank you very much! Or have I? In FFXIV? Hrm.
[01:36] [Darkhawk] I know you did ;)
[01:36] [Wheri] I do a lot.
[01:37] [Darkhawk] The GW2 content, I read all this about a living world and it reminds me.. Is conent based on time and luck in being there when it happens, or can you always access (story) content?
[01:38] [Tarragon] I like the concept of not having classes and just picking skills, but in the end it always turns out that only certain builds actually work and so everyone has one of those. You end up with a sort of classes anyway. If the experimentation actually worked it'd be a lot more fun.
[01:39] [Wheri] There are several categories. The core "main story" and dungeons (with side-stories happening in parallel to that) are always there. Living world is a bit weird. It had a few live events, but generally treated as episodic content. You can access it so long as you were there when it came out, bought it, or have someone with you who fulfills either of those requirements.
[01:42] [Tarragon] Off now, night everyone.
[01:42] Tarragon (Tarragon@5ED28D04.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Quit: Dig down your heart in this soil / Dig down next to me
[01:46] [Wheri] The story has a protagonist (you), but you can access it with a group. In that case, the protagonist is the group leader. Most episodes have branching paths with separate achievements, so there is a reason to take turns.
[01:47] [Darkhawk] or not, if you want to do immersiveness/RP
[01:48] [Darkhawk] but yeah, the Living World thing sounds a bit weird. Probably not to my liking, but who knows. Good thing the story is kept separate.
[01:48] [Wheri] Yeah, it makes sense to play alone. Nothing wrong with "lemme show you mine", though!
[01:49] [Wheri] Yeah. It's part of that push MMOGs had around 2012 for a more episodic approach to story. It doesn't seem to have stuck.
[01:49] [Darkhawk] It's kinda funny in SW:ToR where you compete on who gets to pick the path. But it's not very good for RP either, that there's a RNG behind it, and that your character says something completely different than what you thought, with that dialogue wheel. Ugh.
[01:50] [Wheri] I just don't like story in my MMOGs, at all.
[01:50] [Darkhawk] I remember. We're totally opposites. Not that most MMO stories are any good, unfortunately.
[01:51] [Darkhawk] Again, TSW had the best, in general.
[01:51] [Darkhawk] LotRO also does fairly, circumstances considered.
[01:51] [Wheri] You're probably right. GW2's is basic, but cute.
[01:52] [Darkhawk] maybe that was what turned me off...
[01:52] [Darkhawk] But no excuse not to check, if it's free
[01:52] [Darkhawk] as for cute, FFXIV wins it all ;)
[01:54] [Wheri] Thankfully, at least the pre-expansion story is all optional. I don't think I've ever finished it.
[01:56] [Darkhawk] hrm, there is no month of game time included in the expansion cost for FFXIV.
[01:56] [Darkhawk] That's a bit.. much, considering I'm poor again.
[01:57] [Wheri] Seriously!? What the hell Square?!
[01:57] [Darkhawk] To be fair, they're not the only ones doing that, but yeah, bummer.
[01:58] [Darkhawk] so 35 euros and 13 for a months subscription, to check it out
[02:00] [Wheri] Shame.
[02:01] [Darkhawk] For those hating the story, there's an option to advance through to the new lvl 60 content without doing the rest.. For 25 dollars.. hehe.
[02:01] [Wheri] The "we've worked so hard on it and really want you to see it!" option.
[02:02] [Darkhawk] or else!
[02:02] [Darkhawk] Well, all MMO's certainly get 'creative' on the 'micro' transactions.
[02:08] [Darkhawk] Piken Square is full. Thought I'd catch a sneak peak at character generation.
[02:08] [Darkhawk] Any way to get into a full server, or is it like FFXIV, we have to pick another one?
[02:11] [Wheri] I think you're choosing your "home" server - the one you'll be representing in PvP and the one you'll be defaulting to in the open-world. There is a way to change your home server, but I'm not sure whether it's free or how long it takes.
[02:11] [Darkhawk] yeah, it says 'initial home world select'. Doesn't sound set in stone
[02:12] [Wheri] As I said, not sure if it's free.
[02:13] [Wheri] One moment, I'll look for it.
[02:14] [Wheri] Yes. You can change your home world. There is a limit of one such transfer every seven days per account; each transfer will cost gems determined by the destination server population500, 1000 or 1800 gems for medium, high or very high, respectively. After a transfer, all existing and future characters on your account will play in the new world. You can also delete all characters and it will allow you to transfer for free. Your gold, bank, achievement point
[02:14] [Wheri] s and titles will not be affected if you delete all characters.
[02:15] [Darkhawk] Ehr, so what, make a new char, delete that one, get a free transfer? Sounds fishy
[02:16] [Wheri] I guess. But as I said, this choice is basically only relevant for the PvP thing.
[02:16] [Darkhawk] because otherwise you're the same place? Seems people don't find that choice irrelevant, looking at boards
[02:17] [Wheri] Seems so. I've only played with a small and tight group that started at release, so it was basically irrelevant to me.
[02:17] [Wheri] Here's what the FAQ says:
[02:17] [Wheri] Since the April 2014 Feature Pack, all servers are linked together with a megaserver. If you have a friend, they should be in the same map that you are in, regardless if you are in another server or not. However, you will not be able to play WvW with them if you are on different servers; the rest of the game can be completed together without being on the same server.
[02:19] [Darkhawk] but that means you can't access random RP players on Piken for instance, only friends/guild?
[02:19] [Darkhawk] Mostly asking to make sure we do the right stuff, Tarra really likes her RP.
[02:19] [Darkhawk] In theory at least :)
[02:20] [Darkhawk] I picked a server and created/deleted a char. Still on the same server, and it says moving server would require me to upgrade the game. Oh well. Trying to delete my account.
[02:20] [Wheri] The way I read it, the only thing the home server affects is WvW, but I am not entirely sure.
[02:21] [Darkhawk] WvW is that living thing... thing?
[02:21] [Wheri] World Versus World PvP.
[02:21] [Darkhawk] oh
[02:21] [Wheri] It's almost entirely separate from everything else.
[02:26] [Wheri] Oh, in character creation, those background choices you make affect... things. Nothing that would be visible to other players. The last choice, I think, is an outfit piece that you cannot acquire otherwise.
[02:31] [Wheri] What other "before I play" tips should I give? The race primarily affects your personal story, starting area, and appearance. It also offers a few abilities, but those tend to be weaker than similar ones on specialised classes and not really relevant to gameplay.
[02:31] [Darkhawk] don't give out those tips, there's a little bit too much spoiling in that for me, remember, my threshold is ultra low ;)
[02:32] [Wheri] Okay, sorry.
[02:32] [Darkhawk] But as it is, I won't remember this when I actually statrt making a character
[02:32] [Darkhawk] no problem :)
[02:32] [Darkhawk] Still reading up on the server thing.
[02:33] [Wheri] Mine says it's halfway to playable now, but I've no idea what it means for an older account with established characters.
[02:33] [Darkhawk] You can join other friends in other servers, as long as its either EU or America, but at the very least, you'd need one friend in Piken, then you'd do a party with him, and teleport over. Bit inconvenient for RP'ing with more than your friends at planned times.
[02:33] [Darkhawk] Otherwise, you'd run around in your non-rp server and not get to the RP server on your own so to speak.
[02:34] [Darkhawk] As I understand it.
[02:34] [Darkhawk] Yeah, I got to playable and beyond, but it kept on downloading, so I had to stop the game at around 10gb or risk my cap for today.
[02:50] [Darkhawk] ok, the megaserver thing really destroyed/handicapped RP it seems. That's really sucky. As usual RP'ers aren't important enough to be taken into account.
[02:52] [Darkhawk] The megaserver only puts you together if you're in a guild or friends or a party. But ideally, you'd wish for an RP community outside of guilds and people you already knew. Events need to be planned and not so spontaneous. I guess if you see tea party RP now, it'll be even WORSE, i.e. the same teaparty RP with the same group of friends ALL THE TIME ;)
[02:52] [Darkhawk] Still not going to RP anymore in an MMO, but that's a sad change for those who do.
[02:53] [Wheri] That's a shame. Not that there was any particular priority on it to begin with, which is odd. The game has a lot of lore. Not particularly high-quality lore, but there's a fair amount of it.
[02:53] [Darkhawk] Yeah, hence two unofficial RP servers.
[02:54] [Darkhawk] You still have a higher chance of meeting RP'ers if you're on Piken, because if all things are equal, most people you'll meet on your server will be from the same server. But not like before the change.
[02:54] [Darkhawk] I can also see people complaining about harassment/getting mocked for RPing, because there are more clueless people about.
[02:55] [Wheri] Yeah, that's always annoying.
[02:55] [Darkhawk] hrm. oh well.
[02:55] [Wheri] MMOGs are collapsing in general, I guess. No point in catering to a niche within a niche.
[02:56] [Darkhawk] Somewhat collapsing maybe. Still, huge numbers of players, enough to sustain games. But yes. Seems they might be trying to go smaller or go Conan-survival sandbox. Nothing big in the works like in the old days. Guess Elder Scrolls was the last for now.
[02:57] [Wheri] Indeed. And the largest ones keep losing subscribers; no large design innovations to be seen, either.
[02:58] [Darkhawk] yep.
[02:58] [Darkhawk] Too bad Everquest Next died
[03:02] [Wheri] Indeed.
[03:08] [Wheri] Yeah. I just got two birthday presents. So looks like I've been out of the game for at least a year and a half.
[03:16] [Darkhawk] You certainly sound more interested in GW2 than FFXIV, hehe
[03:17] [Wheri] True. But as I've said before, I like the game. Used to, at least.
[03:18] [Darkhawk] I'll let you know about GW2 and us then, and not so much about FFXIV? Or do you want to hop in anyway?
[03:20] [Wheri] I can probably still do a month of Fourteen, but since Cyrillion seems to be the only one onboard with that right now, I'm not sure we'll end up playing it at all.
[03:21] [Darkhawk] oh, I'm onboard as well, and I think Tarra is. Actually it was I who suggested FFXIV first.
[03:21] [Darkhawk] But whether we pick one or the other first doesn't much matter to me.
[03:22] [Darkhawk] Might matter to Cyrilion since he'd already paid ;)
[03:22] [Wheri] Huh. Sounded more like a big maybe, provided you can find a suitable FC, but okay.
[03:23] [Darkhawk] everything here sounds like a big maybe ;)
[03:23] [Darkhawk] but yeah, we need a suitable FC first. I'll ask Cyrilion about what he thinks tomorrow, and let you know.
[03:24] [Wheri] That's a plan.
[03:25] [Wheri] I'll keep IRC open, provided something doesn't force me to reboot.
[03:26] [Darkhawk] otherwise I'll find you on Steam :)
[03:26] [Wheri] Right.
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[13:00] [Darkhawk] heya
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[14:25] [Cyrilion] Afternoon
[14:25] [Darkhawk] Afternoon Cyrilion
[14:26] [Darkhawk] We continued the talk after you left. Had one of our usual 'we could also play... or how about this one..' etc, that usually leads nowhere as everyone has different tastes ;)
[14:26] [Cyrilion] Right
[14:28] [Darkhawk] But we found out that GW2 has a free trial, and there was general positivity about trying it out. Personally, I'd like to try out both GW2 and FFXIV, but not at once. So I'm thinking that if we (that's you, ingame...) find a good FC, we'd try that first. Tarra is also on board with that, though she thinks she'll only play a month.
[14:28] [Darkhawk] And I thought, since you already paid for it, we might as well start with FFXIV, right?
[14:29] [Cyrilion] If I can find a FC, that is?
[14:29] [Darkhawk] yes, Tarra won't buy the game before that's in place. And same for me, if being sensible, because I'm poor again.
[14:30] [Cyrilion] Still, I decided to pay, knowing it might not flesh out. Not to force a decision from you guys
[14:31] [Wheri] That new Citadel thing was suggested, as well. Looks like I've found a partner to scout it out tomorrow.
[14:31] [Darkhawk] Yeah true you did, I just thought, since it's the same to me what game I play first, might as well show solidarity to you already having bought it.
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[18:27] [Tarragon] Hello
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